ATC messages

The ATC would be more useful if it was more like a real ATC.

1. No wind at startup (this is useless because the wind changes until take off)

2. No "request startup", VFR traffic doesn't request startup in real life and what should we do if we don't get startup approved? Close the sim?

3. First ATC contact is request taxi, ATC responses with runway in use and QNH (We need the QNH in Hg/in and HPa)

4. Next message AT THE HOLDING POINT, NOT ON THE RUNWAY is "ready for departure", ATC responses with wind and runway xy cleared for take off.

In flight:

1. First contact "inbound to land", ATC responses with runway in use and QNH (not QFE)

2. ATC gives landing clearance on base or final with wind

It's not the same as in real aviation but it's a good balance between useful reality and easy sim.

The QFE is useless on high airfields because the baro altimeters are not able to set such values.

And the QFE is only useable at the specific airfield. Not en-route and not on other airfields.

The QNH is universal

The ATC would be more useful if it was more like a real ATC.

 

1. No wind at startup (this is useless because the wind changes until take off)

2. No "request startup", VFR traffic doesn't request startup in real life and what should we do if we don't get startup approved? Close the sim?

3. First ATC contact is request taxi, ATC responses with runway in use and QNH (We need the QNH in Hg/in and HPa)

4. Next message AT THE HOLDING POINT, NOT ON THE RUNWAY is "ready for departure", ATC responses with wind and runway xy cleared for take off.

 

In flight:

 

1. First contact "inbound to land", ATC responses with runway in use and QNH (not QFE)

2. ATC gives landing clearance on base or final with wind

 

It's not the same as in real aviation but it's a good balance between useful reality and easy sim.

I agree with most of this, although request for startup is a requirement at some military bases because a lineman/follow me/escort is required for engine starts and taxi, so this is a request for the tower to send one of those out. Also we need to also have the winds expressed in knots not m/s.

I agree with most of this, although request for startup is a requirement at some military bases because a lineman/follow me/escort is required for engine starts and taxi, so this is a request for the tower to send one of those out. Also we need to also have the winds expressed in knots not m/s.

Ya but we don't need a start up aprovement in DCS because... you know.... Never have seen someone who quits the sim because he didn't get startup aproved.

Usually in real aviation we get the wind in knots. The A-10 CDU is able to take wind inserts and I think you have to insert in m/s but I'm not sure.

But the rest is much important!

I agree with a couple of exceptions. First off, I like the requesting of startup. It serves no practical purpose for the simulation, but adds to the immersion. You might Alma want to request clearance, and it should be provided prior to clearance for take-off. When you near the runway you should be able to report that you are at the holding point and ATC should either 1 - deny access to the runway, 2 - clear you to line up and wait (for example an aircraft just landed and has still not cleared the runway) or 3 - clear you for line up and takeoff.

Also I wish the ATC would order you to contact the GCI or which ever agench you have. This could be done by allowing players to create a com-plan in the editor, or just make the ATC say "contact fighter controller" after departure.

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

I agree with a couple of exceptions. First off, I like the requesting of startup. It serves no practical purpose for the simulation, but adds to the immersion. You might Alma want to request clearance, and it should be provided prior to clearance for take-off. When you near the runway you should be able to report that you are at the holding point and ATC should either 1 - deny access to the runway, 2 - clear you to line up and wait (for example an aircraft just landed and has still not cleared the runway) or 3 - clear you for line up and takeoff.

 

Also I wish the ATC would order you to contact the GCI or which ever agench you have. This could be done by allowing players to create a com-plan in the editor, or just make the ATC say "contact fighter controller" after departure.

 

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet[/Q]

For a startup request the only response would be "Startup aproved". It's useless :D And like I said, normal VFR flights don't have to request it

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ATCs in CIS countries typically use QFE rather than QNH? If that's the case, I would prefer if QFE was given at least by the Russian speaking controllers.

There is a new ATC system in the works.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ATCs in CIS countries typically use QFE rather than QNH? If that's the case, I would prefer if QFE was given at least by the Russian speaking controllers.

That might be a national thing... In Finland for example all we use is QNH on airports... and standard setting on flight levels (naturally). I believ

e QNH for airports is the norm in most of EU. Of course there may always be exceptions in for example airports that are below the mean sea level...

About the startup clearance.... I know it's useless. But it adds to the immersion. :D

I would also like to hear the pressure setting way before I'm a-go on the runway. You have plenty of time to adjust during startup and taxi, not so much on the runway.

I just hope the ATC system that's in the works has some common sense, unlike right now... It's not even close to a real ATC...

I believ

e QNH for airports is the norm in most of EU. Of course there may always be exceptions in for example airports that are below the mean sea level...

Below sea level in the USA still uses QNH. Altimeters will scroll negative.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/l06

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ATCs in CIS countries typically use QFE rather than QNH? If that's the case, I would prefer if QFE was given at least by the Russian speaking controllers.

What are CIS countries?

No airport would give a pilot a QFE, because the pilot can only fly with a QNH. With QFE you never know your height above the ground away from the departure airport, so the QFE is useless.

One of the most important things is to know your altitude and for altitude you need QNH.

Ever have flown in low altitude at night where you don't see obstacles? Without knowledge of your altitude you end up in a mountain very quickly

Below sea level in the USA still uses QNH. Altimeters will scroll negative.

 

http://www.airnav.com/airport/l06

Im aware, yes. And I do not know if any of those airfields this side of the pond use anything besides QNH... if they do, It might be a convenience thing... playing around both sides of 0 alt is another hole in the safety nets.

The only thing where I know it could be useful to use something else besides QNH is in airshows where you might want thr runway altitude set as zero for precise low level maneuvers...

That might be a national thing... In Finland for example all we use is QNH on airports... and standard setting on flight levels (naturally). I believ

e QNH for airports is the norm in most of EU. Of course there may always be exceptions in for example airports that are below the mean sea level...

 

 

About the startup clearance.... I know it's useless. But it adds to the immersion. :D

 

I would also like to hear the pressure setting way before I'm a-go on the runway. You have plenty of time to adjust during startup and taxi, not so much on the runway.

 

I just hope the ATC system that's in the works has some common sense, unlike right now... It's not even close to a real ATC...

In real aviation you get the QNH and the runway in use when you "request taxi" and when you report "inbound to land"

The problem is DCS don't use help from real pilots much. I try to help make DCS more realistic for years. For example the beacons on the F-10 map. I tried to get DCS to implement that in 2013 I think and it took that long to have the beacons on the map finally.

DCS has much potential but to create a good simulator for anything, you have to use help from people who are familiar with this.

In real aviation you get the QNH and the runway in use when you "request taxi" and when you report "inbound to land"

 

The problem is DCS don't use help from real pilots much. I try to help make DCS more realistic for years. For example the beacons on the F-10 map. I tried to get DCS to implement that in 2013 I think and it took that long to have the beacons on the map finally.

 

DCS has much potential but to create a good simulator for anything, you have to use help from people who are familiar with this.

At least here QNH is given in the ATIS transmission for every airfield (with weather info as well). The pressure setting is verifield with ATC at the points you said, or at clearance delivery.

Your efforts are appreciated at least by me. I for one am very keen on having proper atc with ATIS, TWR, APP and Area... on busier airfields even delivery and ground.... though for that you would need civilian traffic to have any point in having "secondary service frequencies".

I wonder if ATIS could be integrated to SimpleRadio Standalone...

Im aware, yes. And I do not know if any of those airfields this side of the pond use anything besides QNH... if they do, It might be a convenience thing... playing around both sides of 0 alt is another hole in the safety nets.

 

The only thing where I know it could be useful to use something else besides QNH is in airshows where you might want thr runway altitude set as zero for precise low level maneuvers...

No you don't need QFE because if you know the airfield elevation (f.e. 300 feet) and you see you are at 400 feet, you know you are 100 feet above the ground.

That's why no one uses QFE. Because it's useless.

What are CIS countries?

Countries belonging to the Commonwealth of Independent States, ex USSR members. It's relevant, because on the Caucasus map, the two countries with airfields are either members (Russia) or former members (Georgia).

No airport would give a pilot a QFE, because the pilot can only fly with a QNH.

Well, they seem to do just that in Russia.

Results of my quick internet search:

http://www.fly-corporate.com/flying-russia-heres-what-you-need-know/

"Crews should expect to be given pressure settings in QFE (field elevation) rather than QNH (adjusted to sea level) for arrival at Russian airports."

And some forum threads discussing the issue:

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/572360-russia-cis-use-qnh-feet-below-transition-level.html

http://www.pprune.org/questions/488358-qfe-approach-almaty-help.html

Countries belonging to the Commonwealth of Independent States, ex USSR members. It's relevant, because on the Caucasus map, the two countries with airfields are either members (Russia) or former members (Georgia).

 

 

 

Well, they seem to do just that in Russia.

 

Results of my quick internet search:

http://www.fly-corporate.com/flying-russia-heres-what-you-need-know/

 

"Crews should expect to be given pressure settings in QFE (field elevation) rather than QNH (adjusted to sea level) for arrival at Russian airports."

 

And some forum threads discussing the issue:

 

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/572360-russia-cis-use-qnh-feet-below-transition-level.html

http://www.pprune.org/questions/488358-qfe-approach-almaty-help.html

Ok, then let's held it as it's best: Only QNH, regardless of the airport :joystick: