Russian cockpit images used in English printed manual

We will also be be using the Russian cockpit labels for the cockpit images (same as PDF version).(Wags)

Man this sucks. I found myself taking screenshots from my own cockpit so i could understand the buttons/features better. Viewing them along side the downloadable pdf.

There is no way i'm paying for this manual comprised of images in a language i don't understand. It doesn't take much work to get localised images and is to be expected, especially in English.

Sorry DSC team, but it seems a bit lazy of you. Shame i was looking forward to this manual.

Sorry DSC team, but it seems a bit lazy of you. Shame i was looking forward to this manual.

I am not sure whether it has anything to do with them being "lazy." Some people (myself included) only fly using the Russian cockpit, so Russian images are what I want. If the manual had used English images, I would not buy it. Since its pretty much an either/or proposition, someone was bound to be disappointed no matter which images ED put in the manual...

Don't forget that you belong only to one group of people and there are others, who like to fly with Russian cockpit, although they can't speak Russian. If manual were with English labels then these people would be as unhappy as you are now, just currently fortune is on their side - well, everyone can't be made happy.

They have afaik released two versions. Russian & English. I was expecting two manuals, one in English one in Russian. Why does anyone need to be disappointed?

Its not rocket science. Well it seems pretty obvious to me at least.

I also own a Russian version.... maybe i wasted my money buying the English version. Pfft i don't know... it just seems fubar to have a technical manual in a language you neither understand or purchased your game in.

They have afaik released two versions. Russian & English.

Have they? I don't recall ever seeing an English manual with English cockpit images, but maybe I wasn't looking in the right place...

Are you going through the cockpit by reading it's knob names or do you intentionally find the instrument or knob you're searching for, by the location where it is placed?

I don't care about what language is used on the pictures.

It's like driving car - you know where to find the knobs and button and you know their function, regardless what the knob is called.

Don't forget that you belong only to one group of people and there are others, who like to fly with Russian cockpit, although they can't speak Russian. If manual were with English labels then these people would be as unhappy as you are now, just currently fortune is on their side - well, everyone can't be made happy.

I agree ... not everyone is going to be happy. I, for one, am not happy with the Black/White version. I bit-the-bullet and printed my own color copy.

BUT

I WILL buy the manual from ED to support their efforts. And that's what we need to promote here. The camaraderie in the flight sim community is much different then any other and it should extend to the developers who gave us this title.

It's a Russian Helicopter for cryin'out-loud. The manual with it's Russian pictures shouldn't deter you. Hell, you can barley make them out in pics anyhow. Be careful ... you might learn something too ... :book: ... a little Russian.

.

Personally I don't have any problem with russian cockpit. I had doubts but gone away after a week of training. However, I don't imagine myself using russian ABRIS. It's much more complicated and don't know it by heart yet. At least english ABRIS should be shown in manual.

There is no way i'm paying for this manual comprised of images in a language i don't understand. It doesn't take much work to get localised images and is to be expected, especially in English.

 

Sorry DSC team, but it seems a bit lazy of you. Shame i was looking forward to this manual.

You have to understand that initially there was no plan to include an English cockpit at all, it was created by a tester as a mod and incorporated into the Sim long after the English manual had been completed. So the English labels are actually a bonus for those who want to trade realism for convenience. ;) And don't underestimate the work required to make the screenshots. I took those for the German GUI manual (which has much less screens than the flight manual), it's not just making the pics what takes time, but also "arranging the scene" before taking a pic and the editing (cutting, resizing, adjusting info pointers etc.) afterwards.

Personally I don't understand what all the fuss is about, I mean you can easily identify each switch etc. by its location, what do you need labels for?

However, I don't imagine myself using russian ABRIS. At least english ABRIS should be shown in manual.

The ABRIS is shown in English.

You have to understand that initially there was no plan to include an English cockpit at all, it was created by a tester as a mod and incorporated into the Sim long after the English manual had been completed. So the English labels are actually a bonus for those who want to trade realism for convenience. ;) And don't underestimate the work required to make the screenshots. I took those for the German GUI manual (which has much less screens than the flight manual), it's not just making the pics what takes time, but also "arranging the scene" before taking a pic and the editing (cutting, resizing, adjusting info pointers etc.) afterwards.

 

Personally I don't understand what all the fuss is about, I mean you can easily identify each switch etc. by its location, what do you need labels for?

Personally i can't id a switch by its location. By my right elbow i have about 40 almost identical switches. I want the manual the understand these, if i could already ID them i wouldn't need a manual. And devices like the nav system are very different.

What did i pay the extra money for the English version for then.. if the English cockpit was just a bonus? Seems a pretty odd thing to say?

There's no big fuss, but i do think its poor that a properly localised manual is not being provided, especially as its an added cost feature. Realism has no argument here, its a flipping manual.

Um, the manual that came with the English download has the cockpit in Russian as well.

This is the printed version of that same manual, with a few extras thrown in.

We asked for a printed version of the .pdf, as printing locally is far more expensive than a mass produced version, and got it.

Good gravy, I won't ever get into making flight sims - there is no pleasing people.

Realism has no argument here, its a flipping manual.

...of a simulator that strives for maximal realism. ;)

But really, I don't quite underestand your point. Using the manual to find your way in the cockpit? Have tooltip popups or something. It's not a horrible cheat.

also, you misunderstood a point back here:

They have afaik released two versions. Russian & English. I was expecting two manuals, one in English one in Russian. Why does anyone need to be disappointed?

...because a lot of the people that use the russian cockpit doesn't speak russian. A russian language manual is completely unintelligble to them. An english language manual with the original pictures is, however.

To fly Ka-50 with Russian cockpit is the way to go, if you want full realism.

It isn't so hard, anyway. You will get used to it.

But I still use English ABRIS and EKRAN :blush:

Regards!!

Do you think that this discussion could happen about A-10C and Russian Cockpit missing in a english manual?

I think russian mates of this modules could have not problem at all with an english cockpit only in the manual of the A-10, because the A-10 is in english.

The Ka-50 are russian, no problem with a manual with a russian cockpit.

Don´t forget that you have a choice in options , all in english that helps a lot.

Personally, I don't see how flying with labels in a language you don't know is "realistic". Sure, in terms of climbing into a real Ka-50 and having a chance of starting it up and taking off, it's realistic. But in terms of you being a Russian national with basic fixed wing flight training, some form of helicopter flight training and more besides under your belt, I feel it's actually UNrealistic to imagine that you aren't already intimately familiar with your native language.

Would you watch a foreign language movie with no subtitles for the sake of realism? OK, so that's a little smartarse, sorry. But you take my point. And if you're providing for those of us not interested in learning Russian just to play a game, I think it would be best if there was a PDF manual with the English screengrabs in it. Relative to the huge amount of work put into the sim, it's surely not a big ask. That said, I managed, and I suck! So, so can everyone else.

Aye Big_les, it's the same thing as when you have some nice sci-fi movie three milennia into the future - no bloody chance they'd be speaking english but in the tv series it's usually better to use english to "emulate" the "real" language.

For me personally, flying with russian cockpits would be more of an atmosphere thing. I haven't done it yet in DCS:BS actually but I have been tempted to switch.

Personally, I don't see how flying with labels in a language you don't know is "realistic". Sure, in terms of climbing into a real Ka-50 and having a chance of starting it up and taking off, it's realistic. But in terms of you being a Russian national with basic fixed wing flight training, some form of helicopter flight training and more besides under your belt, I feel it's actually UNrealistic to imagine that you aren't already intimately familiar with your native language.

It's definitely a small creature, but the Wink doesn't deserve to get overlooked:

;)

;)

Winks are important, yes. :P

I agree with MadTommy and Big_Les. I have never understood that for the sake of realism, we need to suffer learning the sim. I mean, we bought the English version of the sim because the sim is complex enough...let alone learning Russian at the same time. ALL these conversations would HALT if one buys the English Black Shark, they get an English Cockpit, English Manual with English lables. And if one buys the Russian version, they get a Russian Black Shark, Russian Cockpit with a Russian Manual with Russian Labels. Its as simple as matching the sim with the language it represents when the person spending their hard earned money wants to learn the sim in the language they choose....If you ask me, the people that don't seem to be cooperating are the ones that want to mix and match English versions with Russian labels...and Russian cokpits with English manuals and English and Russian this and that.....WTF. They are the culprits causing all the chaos.

But in terms of you being a Russian national with basic fixed wing flight training, some form of helicopter flight training and more besides under your belt, I feel it's actually UNrealistic to imagine that you aren't already intimately familiar with your native language.

I am really surprised by the number of people who are so resistant to learning a few knobs in Russian. I mean, I don't speak a word of Russian (and am generally terrible with foreign languages), and it took me no more than a day or two to be pretty comfortable in the cockpit. Certainly the amount of time I spent learning the labels pales in comparison to the time learning the avionics and how to actually fly the beast without crashing.

Any really, its not like military aircraft are known for their user friendliness, regardless of what language they are nominally in. For example, I am looking at a pic of the DED of an F-16, and the only things written on it are DTS, DBTC, OW/C, PGCAS, and ACQ. These are not exactly in English per se, are they?;). Learning to fly the thing is a matter of learning what each of those acronyms mean. IMHO, it hardly makes much difference in learning time whether the symbols are using the Roman alphabet or Cyrillic.

If you ask me, the people that don't seem to be cooperating are the ones that want to mix and match English versions with Russian labels...and Russian cokpits with English manuals and English and Russian this and that.....WTF. They are the culprits causing all the chaos.

From my point of view, its not mixing and matching anything. This a simulation of the KA-50. The real KA-50 has a cockpit in Russian. There is no KA-50 that has an English cockpit. A "simulation" of a KA-50 with an English cockpit is not a simulation at all, as the aircraft it purports to simulate does not exist (and in all likelihood will never exist).

I see learning the Russian cockpit as no different than learning the other aspects of the real helo, such as the avionics, flight model, start procedures etc. If someone is not willing to invest the time to learn each of those things, then there are "assists" like easy avionics, easy flight model and the English cockpit...

Besides, cyrillic is just so awesomely beautiful! :D Loved that alphabet ever since the time I spent in the country.

But as for the manual, I really don't understand how it can be a massive difficulty. The only time I've had anything like a "problem" with it from the manuals was when I was checking out a few things about the PVI-800. But my solution was simple: I knew the button I wanted was the second from top. :P

And when I then entered the cockpit, I did have it in english and not the russian of the manual, but it was still second from top. :)

Besides, cyrillic is just so awesomely beautiful! :D Loved that alphabet ever since the time I spent in the country.

 

But as for the manual, I really don't understand how it can be a massive difficulty. The only time I've had anything like a "problem" with it from the manuals was when I was checking out a few things about the PVI-800. But my solution was simple: I knew the button I wanted was the second from top. :P

 

And when I then entered the cockpit, I did have it in english and not the russian of the manual, but it was still second from top. :)

Yes, and I do agree with that point. I really don't have an issue overall myself in the cockpit matching anything up from the manual. So my point really has nothing to do with matching the manual with the cockpit. I am just talking about sitting down and trying to understand things without the sim at hand, i.e. just trying to study the manual.

Oh, yeah, fair enough.