F-14 low speed prowess vs Other Aircraft - Page 48 - ED Forums
 


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Old 04-16-2018, 01:34 AM   #471
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Possibly, i don't know. Fixing the wings in the forward most sweep angle would surely impact the sustained turning ability of the craft, as well as the acceleration. But there might be other factors we may need to consider, such as structural issues
From everything I have read, they left them alone. Override was for emergencies. The only thing I can think where it might help is to try and confuse opposing aircraft of your true energy state, which will change based on the wing profile, so how effective it would be is beyond my paltry knowledge. Of course, this being a video game, there is no telling if an advantage will be seen as peculiarities seem to crop up differing from the real world and million dollar airframes are not at risk.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:33 AM   #472
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he only thing I can think where it might help is to try and confuse opposing aircraft of your true energy state
I read stories about a real Tomcat pilot using this trick in DACT: Joe "Hoser" Satrapa
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:39 AM   #473
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Possibly, i don't know. Fixing the wings in the forward most sweep angle would surely impact the sustained turning ability of the craft, as well as the acceleration. But there might be other factors we may need to consider, such as structural issues
The F-14 can change speed rapidly and wing sweep is a part of that. Its the reason the F-111 was faster than the F-4 with lessor engines. While oddities in the sim might occur, its likely that there will not be a net benefit to interrupting the auto wing sweep. One factor may be increased, but only for a moment and probably at the detriment of another factor that overall would decrease effectivness.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:19 AM   #474
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Of course, this being a video game, there is no telling if an advantage will be seen as peculiarities seem to crop up differing from the real world and million dollar airframes are not at risk.
This the question that I truly want the answer to.

Realistic though it may be, it is still a simulation, and as such, can never be a total mimicry of the real thing. What a real F-14 pilot had to contend with in the way of his aircraft's limitations may not necessarily apply to us.


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Old 04-16-2018, 12:56 PM   #475
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This all despite the fact that Tom's wings move forward faster and sweep slower- and including the body lift? If you're at fighting weight and have a clean or Sparrow belly with no tanks you shouldn't be losing lift as the body makes up for it- AFAIK the body generates the majority of the left when the wings are swept- so the actual wings function best unswept, I'm sure you bleed quick while swept but man you have insane pitch rates.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:41 AM   #476
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This all despite the fact that Tom's wings move forward faster and sweep slower- and including the body lift? If you're at fighting weight and have a clean or Sparrow belly with no tanks you shouldn't be losing lift as the body makes up for it- AFAIK the body generates the majority of the left when the wings are swept- so the actual wings function best unswept, I'm sure you bleed quick while swept but man you have insane pitch rates.
Look up in the manual. Just above the paragraph that states the normal wing sweep rate, there is also one that states that as the aircraft experiences more g's the wing sweep mechanism slowly becomes less efficient and can eventually stall completely. For the life of me i couldn't find any published material on how much does g-load effect the sweep rate, but i'm assuming that it is relatively unhindered during "normal" flight regime (say up to 7-7.5 g's), it starts to slow down above that and completely stops by 9-10g. This is all my best guess though, that is why i asked for confirmation or negation by someone that might know better.

As for the total lift, the actual lifting area of the fuselage is always the same, only it's relative percentage of the total lift changes as the lifting area of the wings decreases when they sweep back. But this is not all there is. Wing aspect changes as well, and this plays an even greater role.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:03 AM   #477
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I'm sure you bleed quick while swept but man you have insane pitch rates.
True, but for how long? My experiences with delta wings in the past have made me wince in that regard.

As I said before, I'm no Tomcat professional, but STR was purported to be the F-14's forte due to the massive lifting surface(s) it possessed. If I was in the front seat of an F-14 and knew that I was about to tangle with someone, I would want every advantage my mount could give me. I just don't see that being possible at full wing sweep, hence the reason I questioned whether or not it would be a sound idea to override the CADC and force the wings to remain at 20 degrees.

As always, if I'm wrong about something then, Tomcat experts, please school me. It's at least half of the reason I visit this forum.
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:50 AM   #478
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Is the only factor lift? Are other attributes considered? Most importantly, how would you employ the Tomcat vs how should you employ the Tomcat?
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:18 PM   #479
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True, but for how long? My experiences with delta wings in the past have made me wince in that regard.

As I said before, I'm no Tomcat professional, but STR was purported to be the F-14's forte due to the massive lifting surface(s) it possessed. If I was in the front seat of an F-14 and knew that I was about to tangle with someone, I would want every advantage my mount could give me. I just don't see that being possible at full wing sweep, hence the reason I questioned whether or not it would be a sound idea to override the CADC and force the wings to remain at 20 degrees.

As always, if I'm wrong about something then, Tomcat experts, please school me. It's at least half of the reason I visit this forum.
You left the wings in Auto, period, for air combat. The rest is artificial BS in a training environment. IF some nimrod hit the pass with the wings swept fulyl aft, you could easily tell by the closure rate and attitude as he went by (usually this was attempted when someone was too low on fuel to use AB for the last engagement).

We used to hear F15 drivers talk about how they could tell our energy state from our sweep value, then I'd ask "so what is the wing sweep schedule"? Not one had a clue. OK, "What is the wing sweep value that would preclude a vertical killing move?" Uh, well, um, not really sure there sir...

The problem is that the Tomcat could do a loop from a very low energy state, down to 180 KIAS for the B/D, where the wings would be fully forward. Up to .82 Mach or so, the wings moved very little, a flat curve that didn't say much about velocity. From .8 to .9, they'd sweep fully aft. Anywhere in that regime, there was plenty of energy to extend and leave.

So the whole wing sweep issue is a lot of fighter pilot at the bar bullshit.

Same crap you still hear about the AIM54C. I still have F15 guys try to tell me what the missile could and could not do.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:52 PM   #480
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You left the wings in Auto, period, for air combat. The rest is artificial BS in a training environment. IF some nimrod hit the pass with the wings swept fulyl aft, you could easily tell by the closure rate and attitude as he went by (usually this was attempted when someone was too low on fuel to use AB for the last engagement).

We used to hear F15 drivers talk about how they could tell our energy state from our sweep value, then I'd ask "so what is the wing sweep schedule"? Not one had a clue. OK, "What is the wing sweep value that would preclude a vertical killing move?" Uh, well, um, not really sure there sir...

The problem is that the Tomcat could do a loop from a very low energy state, down to 180 KIAS for the B/D, where the wings would be fully forward. Up to .82 Mach or so, the wings moved very little, a flat curve that didn't say much about velocity. From .8 to .9, they'd sweep fully aft. Anywhere in that regime, there was plenty of energy to extend and leave.

So the whole wing sweep issue is a lot of fighter pilot at the bar bullshit.

Same crap you still hear about the AIM54C. I still have F15 guys try to tell me what the missile could and could not do.
From the horses mouth indeed...

That definitely answers my question. Thank you for the reply.

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