Missing G-feedback in dogfights - Page 6 - ED Forums
 


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Old 05-14-2019, 08:19 PM   #51
jross194
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I've mentioned this elsewhere here I think but, a bass shaker has helped me, alot.

BTW, I do NOT recommend the ButterKicker 2; I, and others, seem to have wasted $160+ on that (a lot of reports, including me, that the amps fry - for me at about the 2 month mark).

I sorely missed it so I decided to go the DIY route and purchased an AuraSound puck and an amp (they are both rated at 4ohm's while the BK is 2ohms BTW). Counting the software it was cheaper than the BK2 (though of course I've had to eat that initial cost - my vice needs feeding).

- AuraSound AST-2B-4 Pro Bass Shaker Tactile Transducer: $55

Note that this puck is kinda big; I had to mount it on the side (underneath my post-pedestal office chair), not the front or back, which made sense at first, but it doesn't seem to matter.

- Dayton Audio SA70 70W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier: $50

- SimShaker software (forget the price but it was about $25 I think); the author is updating it still as I've just downloaded the most recent update. The Tomcat is supported, among others.

Some speaker wire I had laying around; 4 wood screws and viola, my butt is tuned in to the G and buffet again. Sure, it's artificial but until they make a centrifuge that'll fit into my man-closet its the most cost-effective way I can find.

A motion seat would be cool too but I'm not sure they have the vibration feedback (several YT's about people adding bass shakers to their motion machines indicate most don't). Not sure.

Doesn't take too long for you to feel when you're at X-g or Y-buffet value (and besides it hurts a LOT less than real G). Yeah, you can hear it and somewhat see it via the sim Fx (I'm strickly VR), but feeling it is fantastic. All the other SimShaker Fx's are fine but the above 2 are the biggies IMO.

I've not littered the desert with my wings since, though of course I do have more time in the Tomcat (the one that needs this the most in my stable).

Sim feels dead without it to me; one of those you didn't know you needed it until you tried it, and then lost it...

Note the JeatSeat (I think it is) would probably be fine too but the above was cheaper and seems to be of high [enough] quality.

If you dig around you can find cheaper DIY methods but this was a good compromise to me.

Take care
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:23 PM   #52
IronMike
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The indicators for Gs are all there; and according to our SMEs very accurate and realistic. It really just takes time to get used to them and to spot even the small buffets early on.

I can tell you that I know exactly how you are feeling, I felt the same way when I started flying it about 2 years ago. In the meantime this problem has gone for me completely. It has been ages that I had to look down to the G meter to check how many Gs I am pulling, a quick glance here and there suffices. Give it time, observe the aircraft and my personal advice: train maintaining a certain amount of Gs to get a better feel for it. You will start "feeling" it soon, even without simshaker and buttkicker, etc.

The Tomcat does need a while to get used to it, but we made sure that all the indicators are there, both visually and if you opt into simshaker or similar, also physically. It really just needs patience, training and experience.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:51 PM   #53
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The indicators for Gs are all there; and according to our SMEs very accurate and realistic. It really just takes time to get used to them and to spot even the small buffets early on.
Well, yes and no. No doubt Heatblur has included all possible g-indicators in the F-14. Not having personal experience in that plane, I happily push the I Believe button on that. But certainly we can agree that feeling the g’s and increasing stick forces in the real aircraft are a significant part of the equation when dogfighting, and those are impossible to simulate. I would be interested to know if there are real world pilots making the case that such tactile sensations are unimportant.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:56 PM   #54
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Well, yes and no. No doubt Heatblur has included all possible g-indicators in the F-14. Not having personal experience in that plane, I happily push the I Believe button on that. But certainly we can agree that feeling the g’s and increasing stick forces in the real aircraft are a significant part of the equation when dogfighting, and those are impossible to simulate. I would be interested to know if there are real world pilots making the case that such tactile sensations are unimportant.

No one claims that and no real life pilot would ever say anything like that and neither would we. But it isnt a real aircraft and thus it is best to speak about what is there and what is possible within the confines of the sim. These visual indications, as buffets, rumble and shaking etc are all there and have also carefully been made compatible with the simshaker software (we worked with Olaf on this during development) which is all what I meant. Naturally, the flying from under you pants feeling, even with simshaker, just never will be possible in a non-full motion simulator, and even in a full motion simulator G forces the feedback will be limited. That is just the nature of the "game" and thus you have to train yourself to make due with what you got. But from day one, it was very important to us to give you as much of this feedback as possible, down to wing vortices and so on.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:32 AM   #55
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The indicators for Gs are all there; and according to our SMEs very accurate and realistic...
Yes they are, and the most complete I've ever seen and heard in any flight sim. Nice job. Now add some feeling (another sense) and you have: more better

Keep up the good work

PS: You guys should do an F4 Phantom (B,C, etc) as I'd imagine it may be similar in feeling given the era's. Don't know of a high-fi one ever being release.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:57 AM   #56
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Like said above, simshaker software and a buttkicker type device no better module I have flown in VR.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:16 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by jross194 View Post
PS: You guys should do an F4 Phantom (B,C, etc) as I'd imagine it may be similar in feeling given the era's. Don't know of a high-fi one ever being release.
Belsimtek/ED are doing an F-4E, no one is tackling a Navy/Marines plane.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:48 PM   #58
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Like said above, simshaker software and a buttkicker type device no better module I have flown in VR.
what does simshaker do?
i have a homemade transducer (knackered subwoofer with cone cut off and bolted to the seat lol) but it doesnt work when i use headphones (always do in dcs).
does that software allow you to run both?
my sub is driven from the subwoofer output (via an amp)
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