Decision time - Index v Pimax 5k+ (or wait 8kX)

From the reviews and impressions I've seen, of which there are many, Pimax is rubbish. If you want the sharpest image quality, the Reverb is the one. I have this, but found the asynchronous reprojection killed VR for me. Many don't have issues with it though.

I have a Reverb too, but this is not what I'm seeing as far as reviews. The 8KX seems to check almost every single box. Clarity, rez, comfort, FOV, colors, black levels, sweet spot , God rays, RGB, IPD Etc.

I have a Reverb too, but this is not what I'm seeing as far as reviews. The 8KX seems to check almost every single box. Clarity, rez, comfort, FOV, colors, black levels, sweet spot , God rays, RGB, IPD Etc.

I had the 5K+. From a build quality, Reverb much better. FoV, no question Pimax wins hands down. But the software of Pimax is *nowhere* near other competitors. Oculus is the best in terms of software quality, then WMR devices. Pimax (as of 6 months ago) were still very much work in progress. If you are a tinkerer or have some computer knowledge, it's not a problem. But if you're new to computers, it could pose a challenge.

Finally, the smoothness of Pimax (again, 6 months ago, because I sold it then) was far from perfect. It was good enough for me, but I'm quite used to VR. There were times when I had to close my eyes because I knew I was going to hit judder.

But at the time, DCS itself was going through a lot of changes. So things could have changed quite a bit. I know my Reverb become glassy smooth (smoother) recently.

To sum up, if you are the type that needs polished, commercial grade equipment, Pimax will probably disappoint. If you don't mind tinkering a bit, you'll like Pimax.

My dream HMD would be Pimax's FoV with Reverbs clarity, headphones, and comfort.

Maybe 8K will fit that bill.

 

My dream HMD would be Pimax's FoV with Reverbs clarity, headphones, and comfort.

 

Maybe 8K will fit that bill.

I think you just described the 8KX :music_whistling:

From the reviews and impressions I've seen, of which there are many, Pimax is rubbish. If you want the sharpest image quality, the Reverb is the one. I have this, but found the asynchronous reprojection killed VR for me. Many don't have issues with it though.

There is no doubt that earlier editions of Pimax headsets had issues, but all resent reviews rave about the new headsets. It remains to be seen if Pimax improves customer support.

They are duel 2160 x 3840 panels, native. They accomplish this over a single display port 1.4 by capping refresh rate at 75hz. Plug into a bandwidth calculator and you can see they just barely have enough. You can quick-swap to ~1440 x 2560 render via PiTool and then this will upscale to the 4k panels and unlock refresh rate to 90hz. From my time at CES, it seems you can pretty seamlessly swap during game run to compare, but I certainly preferred less aliasing over +15hz, especially in DCS. Additionally, the refresh/render balance can further be finessed by discretely adjusting the fov, also via pitool. Overall, having never used Pimax before, I was fairly impressed at CES by the extra parameters PiTool let's you configure. (They already have static foveated rendering that works on everything!)

 

As far direct 8KX vs reverb pixel density comparison, that is quite tricky to definitively answer. As mentioned, the 8KX is 2 x 2160 x 3840, and the reverb is two square lenses: 2 x 2160 x 2160. So, the 8KX has substantially more horizontal pixels to compensate for the correspondingly substantial fov increase, so intuitively you would expect them to have very similar density. It is hard to perform a hard calculation, since your eye distance from the lens in addition to your personal IPDs interaction with the lens arrangement construction can significantly vary the actual perceived dpi. Anecdotally, I can say I was able to exactly replicate my graphics setup at home on the CES rig with nvidia profile inspector (1.4 pd, 2x msaa + mfaa enabled, -0.5 lod filtering) and, to the best of my perception, could not notice any difference in cockpit or outside world clarity + aliasing.

 

But, as mentioned, the clear, consistently colored screens were HUGELY noticeable, and the FOV was just such a good-feeling quality of life upgrade. Now that I've had a night to sleep on things, I find myself craving the 8KX hardcore while playing today on my reverb. I done messed up and tasted (currently) unobtainable glory and now I don't wanna go back xD

 

Another important thing to consider is that the Pimax has hard mechanical IPD adjustment. I have 61.5 and while the reverb works fine with about ~half of the image being sweetspot clarity level, I had close to edge to edge sweetspot clarity on 8KX once the IPD was dialed in. The only headset I've had better sweetspot on is the Index, since that remains the only headset with double-lens design + ipd AND eye relief sliders for 100% sweet spot attainability.

 

I'm actually kinda bummed, because previously I was confident I could wait until Nvidia Ampere + HDMI 2.1 (maybe DP 2.0?) to bring about a a new gen of headsets with the increased cable bandwidth, given that the reverb was almost maxing out current cable tech, but now I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to resist dropping a 1.5k load on this new hardware just because of how good the improvement felt xD

 

But hey, I can dream Nvidia surprise drops Ampre next month and Microsoft drops WMR 2.0 with 6 camera inside out tracking and and Samsung releases a true 2x 8k panel oled headset copying the index chassis adjustments for <$1000. I can dream.

I'd be more than happy to pay for the 8KX but I really can't see it running smoothly. The Reverb is bogged down to 45fps with async reproj on a 2080 Ti, which I find unacceptable due to the ghosting and stuttering. Can I ask if the 8KX has somehow solved this problem?

The Reverb is bogged down to 45fps with async reproj on a 2080 Ti, which I find unacceptable due to the ghosting and stuttering.

A parenteris to 8KX:

(Strange, I think we have quite comparable hardware. I come from 3 year of Rift CV1 and after upgrading H/W and starting to use the Reverb I think the equivalent to ASW ( motionprojection) is better and as long as the FPS, or more exact; the time to produce a frame isnt longer than the 45FPS time limit( 22ms) there is not even a single stutter or ghosting. Much better than oculus ASW. Still got the CV1 an with the new hardware it also is smooth, mostly but I think this is due to a good overhead in GPU performance.)

I was looking into Pimax but was afraid to not getting it work good enough to enjoy gaming in DCS. I know they work far enough in other games I play.

The DCS and pimax not running properly got me to buy the Reverbs now, but I feel its only a between Oculus CV1 and next generation of VR with a lot better FOV.

Really holding my thumbs for 8KX for the upcoming weeks to see how people manage to make them work with DCS.

DCS was one of the prime sims constantly demoed on the Pimax 8Kx at CES etc. I'm sure Pimax would have steered clear of DCS if they couldn't run it smoothly.

for those with an Index and a Reverb, I believe from all the reviews the Reverb is a lot sharper however does this cause a massive hit on FPS in DCS compared to the Index? I'm assuming it doesn't as you don't have to upscale as much in SteamVR but I would like to know for sure.

for those with an Index and a Reverb, I believe from all the reviews the Reverb is a lot sharper however does this cause a massive hit on FPS in DCS compared to the Index? I'm assuming it doesn't as you don't have to upscale as much in SteamVR but I would like to know for sure.

Havent tried the Index but for me with high end CPU/GPU and Reverb there really is no performance issues. Smooth gaming, not really seeing any hits below 45fps and the ASW-version ( reprojection) works reaaly nice. No stutter or ghosting.

DCS was one of the prime sims constantly demoed on the Pimax 8Kx at CES etc. I'm sure Pimax would have steered clear of DCS if they couldn't run it smoothly.

I will hold my thumbs for that :-)

Can you please describe the asynchronous reprojection perdoance? Ie how smooth did it look compared to the stutter-fest of the Reverb, as well as the average frame rate you saw?

Can you please describe the asynchronous reprojection perdoance? Ie how smooth did it look compared to the stutter-fest of the Reverb, as well as the average frame rate you saw?

100% smooth with the reverb (motionreprojectionmode auto) no stutter at all. If I tune the settings so it cannot keep 45fps of course it will not be smooth as the framerate is less then needed. Using the fpsVR I can see that DCS will flow 100% smooth as long as the CPU or GPU dont need to much time to produce a frame. With motionreprojection in auto the maximum frametime allowed is 22.2ms. As long as I don’t bog the hardware down with too high settings, it’ll keep 45fps and no stutter and no ghosting at all.

With the Oculus( and at least with the old hardware) if tuned to around the same framerate I sometimes got ghosting anyway.

I dont know if this smoothness or stuttering cases can be sen if I record a video of a flight.

With motionreprojection or ASW set to off, there wont be a smooth ride (off course) as long as the frame time keeps below 11.1ms at all times.

[Edited the word stuttering to ghosting on the oculus]

I think the key to easy finding the sweet spot in settings is the fpsVR and looking att the frame time for both the CPU and the GPU at times when DCS isnt flowing smoothly. Either the CPU or GPU will show more than 22.2ms for motionreproj or 11.1 for motionreproj off.

When this happens you need to find what setting that is the “too much” factor and lower this setting.

With fpsVR it just took me a few hours, the same with Oculus took way longer, as I couldnt see how changed settings affected the CPU and GPU frame time. Only thing that could be seen withot fpsVR is when the fps go below 45.

Can you please describe the asynchronous reprojection perdoance? Ie how smooth did it look compared to the stutter-fest of the Reverb, as well as the average frame rate you saw?

Dunno if the question was ment for me?

I just started DCS with the Oculus Rift CV1, and flew woth the same settings as I do with the reverb. This, is DCS Pixel density 1.0

Instan action -> Mirage 2000 --> Caukasus take off. I get 90 fps for more than 99% of the time, still there is a little stuttering and ghosting is now and then.

Increasing PD to 1.6 to increase cockpit sharpness and extern visibility takes the FPS down to mostly 45 (ASW kicking in), there more ghosting and not as smooth ride as in the Reverb.

I might be able to film this, but I Think the nice flow in 45fps vill not come out perfect in the Youtube Movie, because playing 45fps in a 60fps Movie wont be 100% smooth.

BTW, this thread is pimax so it might be Worth to move to Another thread.

Havent tried the Index but for me with high end CPU/GPU and Reverb there really is no performance issues. Smooth gaming, not really seeing any hits below 45fps and the ASW-version ( reprojection) works reaaly nice. No stutter or ghosting.

Hey GunnarsDriver, I was asking about the new Pimax's performance regarding asynch reprojection. However, I would like to ask you for a favour.

I keep hearing that 45fps looks great on the Reverb, with no ghosting or stuttering, but I sure did notice those two, even with the frame rate locked at 45fps (often going up to 60 in quiet areas). I know that my PC is perfectly configured in every other game, as the 5GHz 9700K, 2080 Ti, 32GB DDR4 3866, M.2 2TB Evo, etc, all score extremely well in game and synthetic benchmarks.

Yet I've spent over 150 hours trying to find an acceptable performance level in DCS, and have given up in frustration. From everything I've read on the technology - and I've read a shitload - Asynchronous Reprojection must come with ghosting and stuttering. The HMD API has to "fake" every second frame, so these side-effects are present. If they weren't, every game and GPU on the market would be doubling framerate through a simple software hack.

But I keep hearing these claims about smooth performance, and you seem dead set on this point. Can I ask you a favour? Can you fire up the F-14, do the Instant Action take-off, and film the view as you turn left over the small town as you take off? You can do it pretty easily with a phone camera. If you could also bring up the fps counter with ctrl+pause, I can see exactly what fps you're getting. If there is ghosting or stuttering, it should show up clearly on the phone's video recording.

I know it's a big ask, but I'd really like to see this smooth gameplay that so many Reverb owners are talking about. After blowing AU$1200 on the Reverb, and the fastest possible PC on the market to power it, I'm a bit disappointed in the DCS VR experience. I'd owe you big time if you could spare 5 minutes to run this test for me. Anybody else with a Reverb who claims smooth, stutter-free gameplay can run this too. I'd be happy to do the same thing on my system, so you can see what my Reverb does.

Hey GunnarsDriver, I was asking about the new Pimax's performance regarding asynch reprojection. However, I would like to ask you for a favour.

 

I keep hearing that 45fps looks great on the Reverb,

Hi, as I dont wanna hijack this thread( I was looking into Pimax when I got the Reverb, and still is).

Ill make a new thread about tweaking the Reverb and I'll post that video on that thread, Ok ?

I currently have a Pimax 5k+ and was eager to try the 8KX in a recent Pimax meetup in Orlando. All I can say is that the 8KX was the best Vr experience to date. I’ve only had the Rift and 5k+ to compare to but was so impressed by the clarity and FOV of the 8KX that I will be ordering one.

And just like a bug is drawn to the fire .....

Shack, did you get to try it in upscaling mode, or just native mode? Or did you get to compare it to the 8K+ in DCS? I'm interested in what difference you get when upscaling versus native rendering.

Shack, did you get to try it in upscaling mode, or just native mode? Or did you get to compare it to the 8K+ in DCS? I'm interested in what difference you get when upscaling versus native rendering.

I believe it was in native mode as I dont think upscaling is necessary. I have never tried the 8k+ .

I'd take a serious look at HP's Reverb. I had the Pimax5K+ and sold it on ebay. The wider FoV was great, but HP's resolution won over. They iterated the PiTools software often, so I'm sure they are making progress. But WMR and Reverb is very polished now.

 

Also, you'll be fine with one base station. I used it and got compete 6DOF in DCS. Unless you are going to be doing room scale stuff, you certainly don't need two base stations for DCS. The laser lightning stuff leads the pack in tracking.

+1

I've had all the VR headsets except the XTAL, and currently have the Reverb, Index, and RiftS. I too sold my Pimax's (5K) off when I bought my Index and Reverbs. I would look at the Reverb as well OP, but the Index is a good unit too. The Index IMO has the best quality construction, better sound, and is just a good all round headset for a vast number of VR games. That said, if DCS and other sim/cockpit/driving games are your thing, IMO the Reverb will be a somewhat better option. Either way, IMO the Pimax should be OUT until the new 8k comes out, and passes muster.

I definitely wouldn't buy any of the current Pimax offerings, BUT the new Pimax headsets coming out this year appear to better than current VR headsets. I was an early adopter of VR, but I won't be buying any further VR headsets until they have a wide FOV and atleast the overall clarity of a 1080p monitor. Although I may buy the 8kx if it sells on Amazon so I could easily send it back if necessary. .