F-105 Thunderchief - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2017, 06:11 AM   #21
some1+
Posting Rights Suspended
 
some1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asla36 View Post
Same with the Vietnam war stuff, we are never going to see a correct version of the MiG-21, Huey, and so on. But at least we have the aircraft, so lets just accept an inaccuracy in the variants and enjoy the awesome modules.
Well, if that's the case why the need for a dedicated map. Let's just accept an inaccuracy here and there and pretend the Caucasus is a Vietnam map. Water - check, hills - check, forests -
check, airports - check, everything fits.
__________________

Owned modules & betas: A-10C; Ka-50; P-51; FW-190D; UH-1; FC; FC2; FC3; L-39C/ZA; MiG-15bis; F-86F Sabre; Bf 109 K-4; F-5E; Mi-8MTV2; M-2000C; SA-342; MiG-21bis; C-101 Aviojet; Hawk T.1A; Spitfire IX; AJS 37; AV-8B;NTTR; PG
Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Rift CV1
some1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 01:17 PM   #22
frixon28
Member
 
frixon28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NA
Posts: 497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by some1 View Post
Well, if that's the case why the need for a dedicated map. Let's just accept an inaccuracy here and there and pretend the Caucasus is a Vietnam map. Water - check, hills - check, forests -
check, airports - check, everything fits.
Well what's your idea? The reality of the matter is that sometimes it not just possible to have this exact variant of an aircraft designed even if it is completely declassified if the developer does not have access to it. Even if said developer made the exact variant used in whatever scenario you want (lets say Vietnam), we would have to count on either the developer having access to a historical opponent with the same exact variant that it fought against for it to be historical accurate. This is all assumed that either that one developer wants to focus on a specific war/conflict and only develop aircraft for that era (assuming at least 1 year for the development and release of complete DCS modules, and probably another 1/2 year at least for gathering information and data on said aircraft from sources) for that theater that we will be fighting our aircraft in. Or we can guess that a couple of developers got together and all agreed to make exact variants of aircraft opponent in said conflicts. Oh and than someone has to make the map.

DCS is a "simulator", but in reality it is a really in depth game, and we all want a good game.
frixon28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 02:28 PM   #23
asla36
Member
 
asla36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: In a little country in the Baltic (Eesti!).
Posts: 520
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by some1 View Post
Well, if that's the case why the need for a dedicated map. Let's just accept an inaccuracy here and there and pretend the Caucasus is a Vietnam map. Water - check, hills - check, forests -
check, airports - check, everything fits.
I would indeed want all of these variants, but they are never going to be made. I just think that there would be a far greater chance of getting a Vietnam map than the correct variants.

The sad fact is that we rarely get more than 1 variant in DCS. They don't take that much resources to make, but you can't really ask money for them either. They are, in the few cases we have, included in the original purchases.

So I would like to hope that in the future we will have all the correct variants, but currently we have to make due with wrong variants. At least we have the aircraft.

So I think we have a higher chance of getting an F-4 than a MiG-21PFM. Of course having all the correct variants would be awesome, it is sadly never going to happen. And people will prefer new aircraft anyways (in a 2 choice situation), at least I would rather have an entirely new bird to fly than a variation of something I already know.

Ok, now time to end my little stupid ramble and get back on the F-105 track. How was the radar? Was it something comparable to the Viggen or a different story? And how was the SEAD targeting done?
__________________
DCS: MiG-23

Make it happen, and take my money!
asla36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 03:14 PM   #24
some1+
Posting Rights Suspended
 
some1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frixon28 View Post
Well what's your idea? The reality of the matter is that sometimes it not just possible to have this exact variant of an aircraft designed even if it is completely declassified if the developer does not have access to it. Even if said developer made the exact variant used in whatever scenario you want (lets say Vietnam), we would have to count on either the developer having access to a historical opponent with the same exact variant that it fought against for it to be historical accurate. This is all assumed that either that one developer wants to focus on a specific war/conflict and only develop aircraft for that era (assuming at least 1 year for the development and release of complete DCS modules, and probably another 1/2 year at least for gathering information and data on said aircraft from sources) for that theater that we will be fighting our aircraft in. Or we can guess that a couple of developers got together and all agreed to make exact variants of aircraft opponent in said conflicts. Oh and than someone has to make the map.

DCS is a "simulator", but in reality it is a really in depth game, and we all want a good game.
Nothing, just pointing out, that if you want to play fantasy war, then you don't really need Vietnam map, and if you want to play Vietnam War, then you need different aircraft and assets that are currently not present in DCS. Frankly, Vietnam era is one of the least represented periods in DCS, everything we have in game is either newer, or older.

Besides, I find it quite inconsistent, that people want meticulously crafted aircraft down to the last rivet, and then just go: "screw it, let's put MiG-21bis, F-5E and MiG-15 over Vietnam and call it a day". Those airplanes that fought in Vietnam had different performance, avionics and armament, which makes creating a plausible scenario with them next to impossible.

I'm not saying fantasy scenarios are not fun, I like to just take off and blow up some stuff, but I don't see such fantasy Vietnam a viable commercial product.
__________________

Owned modules & betas: A-10C; Ka-50; P-51; FW-190D; UH-1; FC; FC2; FC3; L-39C/ZA; MiG-15bis; F-86F Sabre; Bf 109 K-4; F-5E; Mi-8MTV2; M-2000C; SA-342; MiG-21bis; C-101 Aviojet; Hawk T.1A; Spitfire IX; AJS 37; AV-8B;NTTR; PG
Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Rift CV1
some1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 04:26 PM   #25
frixon28
Member
 
frixon28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NA
Posts: 497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by some1 View Post
Nothing, just pointing out, that if you want to play fantasy war, then you don't really need Vietnam map, and if you want to play Vietnam War, then you need different aircraft and assets that are currently not present in DCS. Frankly, Vietnam era is one of the least represented periods in DCS, everything we have in game is either newer, or older.

Besides, I find it quite inconsistent, that people want meticulously crafted aircraft down to the last rivet, and then just go: "screw it, let's put MiG-21bis, F-5E and MiG-15 over Vietnam and call it a day". Those airplanes that fought in Vietnam had different performance, avionics and armament, which makes creating a plausible scenario with them next to impossible.

I'm not saying fantasy scenarios are not fun, I like to just take off and blow up some stuff, but I don't see such fantasy Vietnam a viable commercial product.
Almost everything "we" do as a player base is fantasy war, no matter how accurate we try to make it, it still won't be close to a real war. I came to DCS knowing that next to a full blown simulator and some other simulators that this was the best for simulating war scenarios.

"Those airplanes that fought in Vietnam had different performance, avionics and armament, which makes creating a plausible scenario with them next to impossible."

Creating a plausible scenario takes a very long time from now and other reasons I stated before.

"Fantasy Vietnam" as far as any of us know, is not in development or has been thought up of yet. This is why we would need aircraft like the F-105 and F-4 to promote the development of a Vietnam map. As said before this is a game with aircraft systems simulated. If this was real life than virtual pilots would go through hundred of hours of virtual training, there would be no more 1 ships, decisions would be made based on logic not humor, and ground and air based systems would be modeled to much higher levels and so would control over wingmen. DCS as a full game is not plausible to real life (I don't think any game is even close), but the developers are doing their best and the aircraft simulations are amazing.

Anyway a SEAD/DEAD F-105 variant would fill in an interesting role in a couple years when/if it is considered by RAZBAM.
frixon28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 05:33 PM   #26
dimitrischal
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asla36 View Post
Honestly I don't care if it's the wrong variant, if it still is the same aircraft. We are never going to get all the correct variants for aircraft for all of the scenarios we want. So better to make due with the Bf-109K vs Spitfire MkIX battle of Britain scenario, because we are never going to get a more accurate one.

Same with the Vietnam war stuff, we are never going to see a correct version of the MiG-21, Huey, and so on. But at least we have the aircraft, so lets just accept an inaccuracy in the variants and enjoy the awesome modules.
Exactly, besides it's ridiculous expecting ppl to pay full retail for each separate version of the same type. It'll have to do.
dimitrischal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:09 AM   #27
The_Pharoah
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 506
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asla36 View Post
Honestly I don't care if it's the wrong variant, if it still is the same aircraft. We are never going to get all the correct variants for aircraft for all of the scenarios we want. So better to make due with the Bf-109K vs Spitfire MkIX battle of Britain scenario, because we are never going to get a more accurate one.

Same with the Vietnam war stuff, we are never going to see a correct version of the MiG-21, Huey, and so on. But at least we have the aircraft, so lets just accept an inaccuracy in the variants and enjoy the awesome modules.
This.
__________________
Intel i5-3570K/Asrock Z77-Extreme 4/G.Skill Ares (24GB) 1600/SSD: SanDisk Extreme 120GB/Seagate Barracuda 2TB/6GB GTX 1060/Coolermaster USB3.0 RC-912/Antec HCG 520/Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO/Win10
The_Pharoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:21 AM   #28
VampireNZ
Member
 
VampireNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asla36 View Post
Honestly I don't care if it's the wrong variant, if it still is the same aircraft. We are never going to get all the correct variants for aircraft for all of the scenarios we want. So better to make due with the Bf-109K vs Spitfire MkIX battle of Britain scenario, because we are never going to get a more accurate one.

Same with the Vietnam war stuff, we are never going to see a correct version of the MiG-21, Huey, and so on. But at least we have the aircraft, so lets just accept an inaccuracy in the variants and enjoy the awesome modules.
__________________
Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K 4.50Ghz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB | 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 |
Samsung 960 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | Oculus Rift CV1 |


VampireNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 05:11 AM   #29
Kev2go
Senior Member
 
Kev2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,045
Default

battle of britain? but the map is not intended to be BB but Normandy 1944. ( yes also wrong variation for this scenario on axis team but i digress)

if you want BB you can always scratch that itch with CLOD.

lets reverse the scenario. that would be like having "normandy" in 1940 BB map with spitfire mk1 and BF109E.
__________________





Build:


[spoiler]

Windows 10 64 bit,

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Noctua NH14S cooler),Crucial Ballistix DDR4 16gb ram (2400 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 512 gb SSD

[spoiler/]
Kev2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 05:16 AM   #30
Kev2go
Senior Member
 
Kev2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,045
Default

also to be fair this is a different case in the F105. This aircraft series only ever did see use in Vietnam. By 1970 THE F105's stationed in Thailand were withdrawn, and the fleets by that point were mostly being relegated to reserve/ national guard service until its final retirement in the 80s. Only some F-105G was kept around for wild weasell in SEA till 1973 when american military involvement ended.. Its not like some other aircraft that have variations that served in multiple conflicts in different time periods.

Other than that it has no historical based scenarios except fantasy cold war gone hot scenario over the fulda gap, where it would be used to employ tactical nuclear weapons. except we have no Map over central Europe.
__________________





Build:


[spoiler]

Windows 10 64 bit,

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Noctua NH14S cooler),Crucial Ballistix DDR4 16gb ram (2400 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 512 gb SSD

[spoiler/]

Last edited by Kev2go; 05-18-2017 at 05:21 AM.
Kev2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:28 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.