DCS Newb and future smoking, greasy spot reporting in with questions

Greetings, All!

After spending far more time watching DCS YouTube videos than any normal, reasonably healthy adult should I have decided to start acquiring hardware, etc., to facilitate my entry into the DCS world. I have a good idea of what is needed, but do have a few questions...

First, just a bit about myself: I was a 60's 'Space kid' enamored with all things Mercury, Gemini & Apollo. I spent my early years in the high desert of California where the X-planes and Century-series fighters out of Edwards made multiple daily sonic booms a way of life. Loved anything that flew all my growing years and followed up with flying lessons (well, until I got married, some might have an idea how that ends up) and worked in the aviation industry for decades, including working on round engines and building airliners for 15-years, along with R/C airplanes & high power rocketry, etc.. So, the appeal of DCS was predictable and obvious. I currently work freelance in the audio/video field as a camera operator and location sound engineer, so, yes, a future VR set would be tax deductible :music_whistling:

I plan on starting with DCS and FC3 and following up with either the F-16 or F/A-18 as a first 'hi-fi' model - seems like the best bang for the buck.

I just built a new PC consisting of the following:

ASUS Prime X470-PRO MB

AMD Ryzen 7 2700 8-core 3.2G

MSI GTX 1660 Super w/6GB GDDR6

32G Corsair fast RAM (forget the speed ATM)

Samsung EVO 970 250GB M.2 NVME

SSD & mechanical drives for apps & storage

Probably not optimum for DCS but not too shabby.

For those who are still reading, some questions!

• The M.2 has, so far, been reserved for OS. When I load DCS is there an advantage to putting it on the NVME drive, as well? Seems like a stupid question, but if there is no advantage (i.e., if the performance bottleneck is going to be the GP card) then I might as well save to space for more demanding video or audio apps that can use it.
  
• Love the look of the Warthog HOTAS, can't afford it so the Logitech X56 V.2 looks like the HOTAS of choice. Has anyone used the "renewed" X56 offered on Amazon (NOT the Saitech, but black & gray Logitech model) for significantly less? I don't hear good things from Amazon Renewed on other kinds of items (I think they just re-ship and hope no one notices the issues), but if its nothing more than "Oh, it makes a little squeak!" i don't have an issue with that...
  
• I love GrowlingSidewinder's videos - the running commentary and TacView breakdowns have taught me so much already. I lean towards RL tech/modeling & techniques than log in & blow stuff up gaming. Can anyone suggest videos of similar caliber with regards to teaching & explaining what is happening & (important to me) why? There are, of course, a lot of gaming videos but i am interested in instruction & technique. I have watched the 'The Art of the Kill' but any other excellent examples of BFM/ACM instruction would be appreciated.
  
• Any other suggestions, tips, tricks, hacks for initial setup would be appreciated!
  

Thanks, all! I hope to be providing you all with easy target practice soon ;)

Curtis

1. I would install DCS on the fastest drive possible. Not only will it help with loading times but if anything needs to be loaded during a flight (and it will) this will prevent any stutters that may happen then.

2. Ask here about the X-56:

https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=602

3. Here you can read about other recommended youtubers:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3963951&postcount=203

If not going for VR, make sure to get some head tracking too.

Hi

I think you will struggle with 256Gb SSD with both OS and DCS, especially when adding maps etc. I would go with 2 SSD 256Gb and have one OS and one DCS.

Neal

SSD's have nose dived in price the last few months, you can now get a TB drive for what a 512GB cost a year ago, and 512 for what a 256 would cost.

Still NVME's are twice the price of a SATA drive, but also 6x faster.

Hey Guys, Thanks for the responses.

I do have a slot for a 2nd M.2 but it is limited to SATA performance when an associated PCIe slot is occupied.

I am considering getting a dual SSD slotted/removable drives as I would like to run Linux for my day-to-day computing and a bootable SSD seems like the only safe & sane way to do that. (My dual-booting forays with Linux have been a nightmare...). I don't know if there is any advantage to using the 2nd M.2 slot if it is limited to SATA performance unless non-NVME SSD m.2s are cheaper than a 2.5" SSD...?

At any rate some good things to consider and not putting the OS and DCS on the same drive sounds like good advice.

Thanks!

You wont get any performance increase in a game going M.2

It's no real difference if I put DCS on the M.2 NVME or SSD. I have DCS on each and see no loading difference. When I move large video files I do.

So my OS is on the NVME and have games on the SSD's generally.

I would not recommend to start with the Flaming Cliffs "easy" modules. I tried DCS World at least five times in the past couple of years, and always ended up wiping it from my SSD, because of the SU-25T "Frogfoot" tutorial, that bugs me with things like "press LCTRL + Pos 1 to turn on the battery, then press RALT + whatever to blabla....". I can guarantee: You will never remember all these shortcuts. The more you can operate directly in the cockpit the easier it is to remember the sequence of actions needed to start and fly the plane.

I finally got hooked to DCS with the F14 module one year ago, that allowed me to do everything in the cockpit. Especially if you don't have a HOTAS System with a bunch of axis and buttons to map the most commonly used actions directly to it, to get rid of the keyboard shortcut hell. With a Logitech X-56 you will still need to remember a lot of these shortcuts in a Flaming Cliffs module. So do yourself a favor and get a high fidelity module of your choice to start with.

The more you can operate directly in the cockpit the easier it is to remember the sequence of actions needed to start and fly the plane...So do yourself a favor and get a high fidelity module of your choice to start with.

Hey Fly, I kinda wondered about the difficulty of flying a low-fi model - having to memorize or at least, have close at hand, all those commands. To be honest (I have to admit I haven't dug very deeply into the forums....yet) I haven't heard anyone else comment about the difficulty of flying low-fi a/c, so I figured it must not be terribly daunting.

Thanks for the pointer; it is certainly something I am going to give some serious thought to, especially as I hope to be VR capable before too long.

C

With an x56 he could cover all the controls he needs to fly an FC-3 aircraft, given that the control menu allows for modifiers that you can add as many as you want of, that occupy one button and give every other button on the HOTAS added functions.

FC-3 has the strongest aircraft in the game..and while "simplified" requires more controller setup than most of the full fidelity pits.. and while the control menu can seem intimidating, once you understand which functions are vital enough to be bound to your HOTAS you'll be out flying and shooting things down in no time and then it just boils down to developing muscle memory.

So new guy, if you want some help setting up FC3 aircraft which is arguably the best bang for the buck, containing the strongest fighters DCS has to offer.. feel free to PM me to help you overcome the initial wow factor at the amount of available controls, of which, you'll likely fill your hotas out with like a 3rd of them and have no problem controlling them without a mouse or keyboard.

With an x56 he could cover all the controls he needs to fly an FC-3 aircraft, given that the control menu allows for modifiers that you can add as many as you want of....So new guy, if you want some help setting up FC3 aircraft which is arguably the best bang for the buck, containing the strongest fighters DCS has to offer.. feel free to PM me to help you overcome the initial wow factor at the amount of available controls...

Headwarp, that is very cool of you to offer to assist! I very much appreciate that.

I have to admit, I really like some of the aircraft in the FC3 module (I got to see and refuel the very first SU-27's to fly in the US, along with the 6-engined giant Antonov 225. The still-Soviet SU-27's put on a special, off-the-hook show to impress us Yanks and they were stunning). The free A4 clickable pit mod might be a nice starter, too. I saw the Blue's fly them and I've always had a soft spot for Heinemann's hotrod.

My birthday is coming up this month, and I figure the X56 will be my present. I'll download 2.5 and get the TrackIR set up, sooner, rather than later, but I will almost certainly have questions about getting the X56 all dialed in, so thank you so much for your generous offer :)

I have some electronics experience, including some Arduino work, and have been watching some of the "Build a switch box" videos on YT, and they're certainly within my skill set. but that's down the road when I get some experience and figure out what I need & want.

Headwarp, that is very cool of you to offer to assist! I very much appreciate that.

 

I have to admit, I really like some of the aircraft in the FC3 module (I got to see and refuel the very first SU-27's to fly in the US, along with the 6-engined giant Antonov 225. The still-Soviet SU-27's put on a special, off-the-hook show to impress us Yanks and they were stunning). The free A4 clickable pit mod might be a nice starter, too. I saw the Blue's fly them and I've always had a soft spot for Heinemann's hotrod.

 

My birthday is coming up this month, and I figure the X56 will be my present. I'll download 2.5 and get the TrackIR set up, sooner, rather than later, but I will almost certainly have questions about getting the X56 all dialed in, so thank you so much for your generous offer :)

 

I have some electronics experience, including some Arduino work, and have been watching some of the "Build a switch box" videos on YT, and they're certainly within my skill set. but that's down the road when I get some experience and figure out what I need & want.

I wish you luck with your x56. Before Logitech bought Saitek I had a poor experience with my x52 pro. I can't speak for whether or not quality has improved since Logitech bought Saitek.

The x56 is pretty much the same stick as the x55 with different colors, and the x55 was previously a Mad Catz/Saitek branded stick.

That being said - I have friends whose x52 pro have lasted them near a decade now. So grain of salt. YMMV. Functionality wise - the x56 a very capable stick with all kinds of options for changing how buttons and axes function, although I'll set you up to where most of your control input settings will be done in-game.

I'm going to send you a PM so we can arrange some stick time. :)

Hey Headwarp,

I hear the V.2 (post-Logitech acquiring Saitek) is improved and has addressed a number of QC issues raised under the old producer, Saitek. I guess we'll see. At any rate the more expensive HOTAS systems are out of my reach for now, and maybe unwise investment for a brand new user...?

I received your PM but can't seem to reply....? Either that, or you are going to get several versions of replies as I attempted to do so but nothing shows in my outbox...? Honestly DCS uses a forum system that is not as functional as some others I have used before...

This is the latest iteration of what i sent:

Hey man,

 

I was wondering - have you ever used Discord? It's a VoIP app similar to teamspeak or ventrillo, that has become pretty popular within the PC gaming community overall, including many people within the DCS community.

Hey,

I have not used Discord. In fact, I was getting ready to look into comms for DCS, although I was thinking I might not need it for a while during my solo basic training. I have heard some chatter about 'SRS' being used in comms...? I will look into Discord and download whatever is necessary.

I need to rig up some audio input into the 'puter and a mic system, as well as finish dialing in my TrackIR. i got it a few days back, but a flurry of work along with a nasty respiratory infection (NOT Carona - if it is I am kicking its ass!) set me back a bit. TIR is working okay on most axis, but I think I need to move my monitor shelf down, as tilting down more than about 40* makes everything spin & twitch.

I ask because it'd likely be easier to get my attention by pinging me on Discord, and I could send you an invitation to my server where we could jump in a channel and be able to speak when you get your x56. It would certainly make it a lot easier to talk to you about controls within DCS World.

I appreciate your offers of assistance; helps me feel a bit more sure-footed getting started. Thanks!

Curtis

I have used X-55 with no problem four years...

FC3 aircraft (and the Su-25T) all share the same keyboard configuration, so if you can learn the 3-4 keyboard inputs needed to start one up, you can start them all up.

Pretty much everything else is bound to the HOTAS so remembering a bunch of keyboard controls really isn't the experience of flying FC3 aircraft.

I always suggest looking at the actual, official, manuals which come with your product. You can have it open on another display/device, and it has a chapter which will get you started.. step by step. Will only take a couple sessions to have the simple process committed to memory.

Hi Shaky, if there is one thing I can recommend that made my DCS learning much easier & more enjoyable it is to download & install a free program called VOICEATTACK.

It is very easy to setup & use & allows you to control everything entirely by voice commands alone - keypresses, joystick buttons, mouse movements - everything. (The voice commands can be anything you want them to be.)

When you want to look at your aircraft from outside & enjoy the gorgeous graphics of DCS (happens quite a lot!) what do you think will be easier - remembering that you have to hold down the joystick pinky button while pushing throttle button 3 to the left? Or simply saying the word "outside" into your microphone?

Do you really want to try & remember the button combination that allows you to zoom in on the cockpit radar screen (needed a fair bit)? Or would you rather just say "zoom in"?

When you're suddenly jumped by a nasty bandit (happens a fair bit :( ) do you really want to go thru the process of pressing this button while holding that button to bring up the Wingman Menu so that you can then select Option Something which then finally (hopefully) allows you to issue the Engage Bandit command by pushing the appropriate button? Or would you rather just shout "ENGAGE BANDIT" into your microphone. (Because you've set up VoiceAttack so that when it hears that command it does all the button pushing/option selecting for you, in a fraction of the time.)

Call me crazy but I'll take option 2 every time.

I cannot understand why a lot of people stick with option 1 & the old multi-layered approach to setting up their controls. I've been there & done that & no matter how good I thought my "muscle memory" was, in the heat of battle it is very easy to forget or press the wrong buttons.

(Actually I don't understand why DCS itself doesn't have a "voice command" column in the Setup/Controls section - it already detects all your controllers & allows you to assign pretty much any button to any function, so why not allow you to assign a voice command to any function as well? I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to program. But then I don't claim to be a computer whiz!)

My HOTAS is set up with the most basic functions only, as you'd find in the real aircraft - trim, fire gun, pickle, select weapon/sensor etc. Nothing else. Impossible to get wrong. I pretty much control everything else by either by mouse clicking in the cockpit or via voice commands. I hardly use my keyboard for ANYTHING (except typing long posts like this :) ).

So my advice is - be careful of well-meaning people trying to set you up with their great convoluted multi-layered HOTAS setups that seem perfectly simple to them because they've been using them for years. Do yourself a favour - keep your HOTAS setup as simple as possible (as close to the real plane as possible), install VoiceAttack & use that instead.

You'll thank me later!

Good Luck! :)

Thanks, everyone, for your advice & comments. It's all very much appreciated and i give them all consideration.

Thanks!