TM Warthog - VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro - VPC T-50

I would like to share with you my personal opinion as I am the happiest owner of all 3 models in the subject. There is for sure no clear winner, hence I will try to compare their features hopping it will help you when you want to buy one. Please note from the beginning all of them are absolutely great pieces of hardware, hence some differences of course exists.

1. Grip Comfort

This means how comfortable your hand will sit on the grip during extensive game times. I do have a medium (normal) hand size, so that this is could be a bit subjective but will apply to most of you.

• 
  We have a clear winner here and this is the good old TM. The buttons ergonomic is something I would easily call perfect.
  

• 
  It is seconded by VPC, which due to its size can also accommodate quite comfortable your hand. The upper right button as well as pinky button requires some effort to reach - theses being the only drawback.
  

• 
  On third place came VKB. This grip address mainly some bigger handed guys and it suffers the same as VPC adding some discomfort to the right side thumb button.
  

2. Grip functionality

This refers mainly to the amount of functions that could be added to your device.

• 
  Yes, here it is also a clear winner. This one belongs to VKB MCG Pro. It simply have the most number of inputs, two analog mini-joysticks (one of them can be switched to buttons input by simply keeping it pressed for few seconds during your game time).
  

• 
  Second place at this category will go to VPC. No analog mini-joysitck. Not much to say more.
  

• 
  Third place will go to TM, with the least number of functions and also no analog mini-joystick.
  

3. Electronics precission

[i will reevaluate this part] - Tested with "dlview"

• 
  VKB - 12 bit for X-Y axis and 11 bit for minijoysticks and brake lever axis
  

4. Gimbal (mechanical) precission

• 
  First place is shared by VPC and VKB, both of them having stellar mechanisms made 100% metal. I would say they are both build for life, maintenance free.
  

• 
  Last place will go to TM. While its mechanics is theoretically good, it suffers from the well known stickiness and requires periodical maintenance (greasing). More than that, my TM device shows some small cracks on some of the gimbal plastic parts. It was not forced, is just weathering.
  

3. Grip extension behaviour

This is to understand wherever an grip extender is a must have or nice to have.

• 
  First place will go to VKB which is working equally great with or without grip extender. This is mainly due to the plastic clutches on both axis with are greatly improve the feeling.
  

• 
  Second place will go to VPC. Becasue it have the tallest grip it also works great with or without extender. However I felt it slightly better with an 8 or even 12 cm extender. the final configuration I've been using remains on 12 cm extender. I tried 20 cm as well... but no... 12 cm remains best, 8 cm is good also
  

• 
  Last came for TM again. The strong neutral position makes this device to require an extender in order to minimize the the center transition bounce.
  

4. Other features

• 
  First will go to VPC. Its 100% compatibility with TM Warthog grip (it works both ways with VPC grip on TM base) makes it very compelling especially for TM owners which wants some more precision. This combination is almost perfect. It also features other parts on their store as extenders and desk mounts.
  Even if VKB support TM grip, this requires some parts changing and cannot be change from one to other with same ease.
  

• 
  Secondly will go to VKB becasue it features an extender as well as the TM adapter.
  

• 
  No extra features for TM, hence it is covered by one of the above
  

5. Buttons feeling

I would not set any order here because all of them are featuring exceptionally great quality button inputs. However is worth saying the most real feeling is on TM side. But if you are going to switch to other game like Elite Dangerous for example, TM real feeling is not necessary the best and can cause some finger tiring .

Some conclusions:

Not very easy to choose, that's why I have all three of them :).

I ended up keeping as my main one the VKB MCG pro. The number of inputs and analog axis plays a very important role in my decision. Also, the gimbal general feeling aided by those clutches is a step further. The gimbal travel distance (angle) is somewhere between VPC (minimum travel) and TM (max travel ) putting it above VPC.

On the other hand, the combination of VPC base with the absolutely greatest grip ergonomic and weight of the TM is something fantastic. The capability to interchange the grips worth to use them both as well. In my case this setup ended up on my son virtual "cockpit" and we are the most happiest family ever. :joystick::pilotfly::smartass:

Hope these information will help you to take the right decision for yourself.

Great write-up - thanks for making the effort.

The commonality with swapping sticks between the Warthog and the T-50 is the reason I want a T-50 - just wish it was possible to buy one! I've been waiting for AGES!!

You didn't refer to "Customer Service" or item availability!! :)

Item availability is an elephant in house and I skipped it by purpose. :D

Customer Service is something I was needed for VPC. Their response was quick and efficient.

For VKB I managed to finally get it directly from China. They answered all my previous questions and helped me with all the requests during the shipment also quick and efficient. The parcel arrived in my country in only 3 days, but I had to wait another 5 days to receive the custom clearance. Not to say that I was hunting it for more than 1 year but I missed the pre-orders made by the Europe branch.

I also own both the VirPil and VKB stick offerings. Couple of points to add on the gimbals. The VirPil has a shorter throw but a longer extension, which subjectively feels better for centre floor mounting, as you don’t have move your wrist as much for comparable fidelity. The compression spring design also feels better in my opinion, as does the tension tuning screws. Also a compression spring is less likely to break over time. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

For now I am keeping my VKB on my right side without extender as it fits best to an Ikea Poang chair. In this setup VKB shines best - proper height. porper travel for best precision.

@hughlb - i am fully agree with your point of view and I am sure it will help more for others to take their decisions.

3. Electronics precission

This one is simple. All of them are on the same level of precision - 16 bit

"Technical nitpicking" :D

Is debatable if even Warthog has real 16 bits precision in axes - Melexis MLX-90333 HALL sensor datasheet show different numbers, but VKB and VPC surely not - neither they advertise as, neither consider this necessary/advantage.

@Sokol - I just double checked my VKB and you are right. It have 12 bit on main X-Y axis and strangely 11 bits on all other axis. I will double check the others when I will have some more time.

Sorry for misleading this info, I will correct my initial post accordingly.

It seems like you can select your desired resolution in the VPC config tool now. Not sure when this was added.

The raw sensor value read is ~12 bit though. I'm showing ~5000 between max/min on each axis so presumably the full sensor resolution is extremely high to reach such high values in only a 30 degree segment.

I have all three too, and I also go with the VKB for much the same reason as the OP. The base is also physically much smaller and easier to mount too, which is something else that might be worth mentioning in your write up, should you choose to.

I would also point out that a side effect of the awful Warthog gimbal is that you also get coupling between the X and Y axis as they share the same spring, which is totally unrealistic.

About ergonomics - I used X-55 for few years and thought it's all right for the money. Recently replaced it with WarBRD base with Thrustmaster FLCS grip. The same grip as Cougar but plastic and obviously very similar to Warthog. I still can't believe how much more comfortable this grip is. All the buttons are in right places, it feels so natural to use.

Wish I could have a chance to compare it to VPC or VKB.

 

I would also point out that a side effect of the awful Warthog gimbal is that you also get coupling between the X and Y axis as they share the same spring, which is totally unrealistic.

I think this is only half true because in case you are flying helicopters this kind of transition is fine. The problem however remains with the bounce over the neutral position.

It seems like you can select your desired resolution in the VPC config tool now. Not sure when this was added.

 

The raw sensor value read is ~12 bit though. I'm showing ~5000 between max/min on each axis so presumably the full sensor resolution is extremely high to reach such high values in only a 30 degree segment.

 

I did not test this yet, but I am 100% sure the sensors are not working at full range on VPC, as you mentioned also. Still, it have a great precision.

I think this is only half true because in case you are flying helicopters this kind of transition is fine. The problem however remains with the bounce over the neutral position.

???

Pitch and roll controls are both connected to the rotorhead, but they're 90 degrees out, so I don't see why you'd have any interaction.

Unfortunately, extra buttons don't compensate for the plastic feel. I preferred TM stick + VPC base with a 10cm extension - a killer combo!

When my Warthog stick snapped, I contacted Thrustmaster and they where not very helpful. I also looked at both VKB and VPC as a replacement, I went with VPC and I found it hard to order a VKB and also the VPC customer services respond to you very quickly.

I must say I really like the VPC, the precision is amazing, I went and bought a throttle from them also and let me tell you, WOW

Thanks Specter

@mithandra - can you try make some kind of comparison for VPC and Thrusmaster throttles? Something similar with my 1st post? And try remain as much objective as possible. :D

I find the TM Target Script easy to understand and program variables.

I find that the MCG-Pro, even with all the variables it can do, far too complex for me to program. I have the manuals, but what I would like are some examples of how to program certain sequences like they do in the TM manual.

Following examples and inserting your own data and adjusting equations is much easier for me if I can see the written sample.

For that reason alone, I am thinking of picking up a new TM F-18C stick and base when it becomes available. My current WH base is worn out. Then I'll have two stick options - WH and F-18C on a new TM base.

Target is the main/only thing that keeps me in the Thrustmaster joystick camp.

When I peruse the competition's websites, there are sometimes options available that makes the TM stick top fit another manufacturer's base with addon electronic modules. Often they state compatible or something. Are they compatible with the Target software? I cannot find that stated on any competitor's website.

If it is not compatible with Target it is not Compatible with the stick top.

I would only defend the TM Wartog F16 stick due to the Target software which allows one to do things like in my posted pics Without having to write one single line of code.

One should not have to disassemble the stick because of an almost across the board "sticktion" problem.

Target is the only reason I stick with a TM Wartog Stick bottom.

Every line is done by the Target software.

Without Target, I cannot recommend the TM Wathog stick due to the piece of crap plastic gimbal system. My old eyes and my "mechanic's" fingers break the wire every time I take one apart. I am on my third. Likely next year at this time, I will be on my fourth.

I refuse to use any device where I have to write by hand even one line of code to make it work.

The Target GUI is a beautiful thing because it can create a profile like my 4 pics below all working together using modifiers and layers and everything is quite nice. That part cannot be beat today. The competition however is moving up fast (Wake up Thrustmaster).

Is the F-18 stick going to have an improved Gimbal? Will I be able to put one of my three joystick tops on it if so?

I really want a VPC base with extension... however their mounting mechanism is batty as hell. They need to make one that can mount from below. I have a simpit that a VPC base just will not connect to.

The VPC WarBRD base may be an option for you.

I really want a VPC base with extension... however their mounting mechanism is batty as hell. They need to make one that can mount from below. I have a simpit that a VPC base just will not connect to.

It's not that hard to make a fitting mounting, tbh

It's extra easy if you don't care what it looks like. :)

It's not that hard to make a fitting mounting, tbh

Indeed. It is needed only a sheet metal slightly bigger then the VPC base and you can use the original back plate as template to apply the holes to it. As @Whisper says... quite straight forward.

The problem with VKB is trying to find one. I bought a Gladiator Mk2 and it's fine for WW2 planes. I got stupid and bought the F/A-18 and now I need a new Hotas for it. My first thought is a Warthog with an extension but i'm not sure. I want something reliable but don't want to spend too much. Not much more than a WH anyway.

I'm open to suggestings.

The problem with VKB is trying to find one. I bought a Gladiator Mk2 and it's fine for WW2 planes. I got stupid and bought the F/A-18 and now I need a new Hotas for it. My first thought is a Warthog with an extension but i'm not sure. I want something reliable but don't want to spend too much. Not much more than a WH anyway.

 

I'm open to suggestings.

If Virpil or VKB is out of your price range along with long lead times, probably Warthog with extension would be your best bet.