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Request: more realistic gunners


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Dear ED,

 

Could you pease have a look at AI gunners? (currently in the B17, but one theJU-88 is out, it will probably have the same problems). Even if they are set to "average", no matter what angle/deflection you approach from they shred you to pieces with their laser beams. I know, approaching from behind SHOULD be dangerous, but currently you cannot fy within 500m of a lone B-17 without getting killed.

 

Also, when they all fire there is a huge FPS impact. Do you have any plans/ ideas to improve this?

 

Thanks a lot!

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Dear ED,

 

Could you pease have a look at AI gunners? (currently in the B17, but one theJU-88 is out, it will probably have the same problems). Even if they are set to "average", no matter what angle/deflection you approach from they shred you to pieces with their laser beams. I know, approaching from behind SHOULD be dangerous, but currently you cannot fy within 500m of a lone B-17 without getting killed.

 

Also, when they all fire there is a huge FPS impact. Do you have any plans/ ideas to improve this?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

do you think heavy flak works ok in the sim?

they act like fireworks in the game, cannot hit anything. in actual use, they had fragmentation effect, that would damage the target. i think this is the thing lacking in the sim. no blast or fragmentation for heavy guns.

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do you think heavy flak works ok in the sim?

they act like fireworks in the game, cannot hit anything. in actual use, they had fragmentation effect, that would damage the target. i think this is the thing lacking in the sim. no blast or fragmentation for heavy guns.

 

Yes, if you place a sufficient number of them in a bunch they are deadly even on "average" level. Now let's get back on topic ;)

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Could you pease have a look at AI gunners? (currently in the B17, but one theJU-88 is out, it will probably have the same problems). Even if they are set to "average", no matter what angle/deflection you approach from they shred you to pieces with their laser beams. I know, approaching from behind SHOULD be dangerous, but currently you cannot fy within 500m of a lone B-17 without getting killed.

 

Also, when they all fire there is a huge FPS impact. Do you have any plans/ ideas to improve this?

 

 

The FPS impact notwithstanding, it is definitely possible to whack down B17s.

This chap shows us how:

 

 

 

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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The FPS impact notwithstanding, it is definitely possible to whack down B17s.

This chap shows us how:

 

 

 

 

Head on attack only.

But try lateral attack and dive attack. You can damage/down them. but Gunner are too precises. It's the same for almost all AI (AAA and fighter). Thay can shoot with too much precision at great distances.

 

If you read books of pilot from this period, you will find that wasn't the accuracy of gunner or flak that bring plane down. It was their number. Fighter pilot even said they had their gun set to spread a large area at a choosen distance to have more chance of hit.

 

There was few pilot that were good at aerial shooting at this time. AI accuracy don't show this.

 

In some other flight sim (please don't delete), you can set the hability of pilot with several parameters. You can choose that it is a good pilot or a bad one. You can choose if he have courage or if he is a coward. You can set his accuracy and lot of other things.

 

Could be better if DCS allow more option in the setting of AI behavior than just a "medium" to "excellent" global level.

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  • 2 weeks later...
no matter what angle/deflection you approach from they shred you to pieces with their laser beams. I know, approaching from behind SHOULD be dangerous, but currently you cannot fy within 500m of a lone B-17 without getting killed.

 

 

I disagree. There's plenty of video of people on SoW shooting down B17s.

1 fighter against 12 B17s should be dead. If youn want to survive the box you have 2 options:

1. Head on attacks

2. Co-ordinated attacks with squadron strength numbers

 

 

WW2 was not a single player event.

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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1 fighter against 12 B17s should be dead.

.

 

Not if I dive through the formation in a steep dive, approacing from 3-4 o'clock. I'm not talking about sitting behind the formation. I'm talking about crazy deflection shots with laser precision. If gunners were like this in WW", there wouldn't have been need for escort fighters.

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I disagree. There's plenty of video of people on SoW shooting down B17s.

1 fighter against 12 B17s should be dead. If youn want to survive the box you have 2 options:

1. Head on attacks

2. Co-ordinated attacks with squadron strength numbers

 

 

WW2 was not a single player event.

 

 

 

 

i dont get your point and what you are trying to defend.

 

 

 

its not about tactics, its about the laser accuracy of the ai gunners which is, in conclusion to pilot reports, unrealistic and unhistorical. :thumbup:

 

 

there should be still an option to set them to laser if u wish so!

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What I don't understand is why sniper/laser like gunnery still exist in 2020?

 

I dont think the code for the gunnery has been touched in the last 10 years, so technically... :pilotfly:


Edited by MrExplosion

Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt,

Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert.

 

Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh,

Der Jägerei ein Horrido!

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What I don't understand is why sniper/laser like gunnery still exist in 2020?

 

This is exactly why, ED didn't have any legit data about gunners accuracy, so they used tracking system from shilka :)So everything withing 1500 m is dead.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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  • 1 month later...

+1 for this.

 

Had my flight of 4 spits attack 4 junkers 88. Junkers set to average. Spit to excellent. All three squadmates where hosed down by a non stop laser strip within seconds. As a human, I can work around it and survive (more often at least), but as it is now it is just rediculous.

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+1 for this.

 

Had my flight of 4 spits attack 4 junkers 88. Junkers set to average. Spit to excellent. All three squadmates where hosed down by a non stop laser strip within seconds. As a human, I can work around it and survive (more often at least), but as it is now it is just rediculous.

 

 

 

 

Did all three AI spits just line up in direct line astern behind the JU88s?

If so, that's not a gunner problem, that's an AI flying-into-bullets problem.

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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Well the problem is the same as in all PC flightsims where a computer is aiming the guns. Its a computer not a person, so it knows the perfect lead at all angles/speeds etc etc no matter what you're doing.

 

I found this video pretty interesting as to some insight as to how gunners were trained to defend their aircraft.... Interestingly it specifically advises against trying to shoot at anything not directly attacking you.

 

Now of course thats probably not how it happened IRL all the time, and part of the strength of big formations of bombers is having all those guns, but if you watch the video you can start to understand how difficult it can be to predict lead reliably when the fighter isnt locked into a set geometry like he is when running in on your own aircraft.

 

9./JG27

 

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

 

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

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against trying to shoot at anything not directly attacking you

 

Indeed! There're plenty of anecdotes from RAF gunners where they almost to a man say that you never, EVER fire your guns at a bogey who's just flying there ignoring you. And they're completely right for a multitude of reasons too...

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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I used to have a gentleman come in our office who was a navigator in a Lancaster.

He said they only saw a German fighter one time.

It was heading toward them but at a lower altitude and the pilot called out for the gunners to hold fire so as not to alert it.

It flew past them and kept going.

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That said I hope they fix the AI gunners.

I did a quick mission where I placed 4 B-29's (Mod), 4 Mig-15's and 4 F-86's.

I placed my flight of F-86's too far away and by the time I got to the battle the B-29's had shot down all of the Mig-15's Lol !

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