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Old 10-15-2019, 12:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by trindade View Post
Apologies for my ignorance but isn't the AI update just for the WW2 aircrafts?
No Nineline, i believe said, that it would be more noticeable in close dogfighting situations but does apply to the overall AI in-game. Not a precise quote but along those lines
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:38 PM   #22
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Flew a Spitfire on Normandy map vs 4x 109 with varying levels of skill.

Cons - As usual the SFM issues are still there, uber vertical energy retention etc.

Pros - the gunnery of the AI is far more convincing for it's inaccuracy. There were many more rounds passing close around me, where before it felt like if the AI had a guns solution, every round was on target, and their laser accurate deflection shots at ranges >300m are seemingly gone.

The willingness to fire at an already crippled a/c may need some tweaking however; as I descended with a blown engine having got too slow trying to follow a 109 doing it's trademark impression of an ICBM I was still engaged by an AI eager to put my notch on his bed post.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dougall View Post
No Nineline, i believe said, that it would be more noticeable in close dogfighting situations but does apply to the overall AI in-game. Not a precise quote but along those lines

Thanks Doug
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DD_Fenrir View Post
Cons - As usual the SFM issues are still there, uber vertical energy retention etc.

I was hoping for a fix on this problem. Hopefully will be addressed in a near future.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by DD_Fenrir View Post
As usual the SFM issues are still there, uber vertical energy retention etc.
I'm with you, but I remember reading that using PFM for all AI aircraft would prove to be too much for the CPU. Perhaps after the switch to Vuclan and real multi-CPU support are completed, they can revisit the issue.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Harker View Post
I'm with you, but I remember reading that using PFM for all AI aircraft would prove to be too much for the CPU.
Not need, SFM is more than enough for AI.
They just need to adjust AI performances, and AI logic.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sylkhan View Post
Not need, SFM is more than enough for AI.
They just need to adjust AI performances, and AI logic.
Indeed. SFM is only a problem in and of itself in a few specific areas, like the lack of torque with prop aircraft, and the lack of low speed departures. Both of those things could be fixed without going all the way to PFM AI models.


In any case, branching out from my initial gun testing to dogfight testing, the AI changes are really good. The biggest change at all seems to be the removal of the AI's innate knowledge of its target speed, which lead to them performing endless loops as soon as they had a 1 knot speed advantage over you. Dogfighting feels so much more natural than before, it's night and day.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:38 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Exorcet View Post
Indeed. SFM is only a problem in and of itself in a few specific areas, like the lack of torque with prop aircraft, and the lack of low speed departures. Both of those things could be fixed without going all the way to PFM AI models.


In any case, branching out from my initial gun testing to dogfight testing, the AI changes are really good. The biggest change at all seems to be the removal of the AI's innate knowledge of its target speed, which lead to them performing endless loops as soon as they had a 1 knot speed advantage over you. Dogfighting feels so much more natural than before, it's night and day.
Don‘t agree at all.The SFM in itself is a problem and is lacking in more areas than „minor“/finer things like prop eng torque and departures.


Amongst other things,the stellar acceleration from near stall speed to high speed for aircraft which aren‘t capable of that is one huge issue, which makes low speed , high aoa fights completely unrealistic and funless, as the A.I. regains energy absurdly .


Besides in my experience, even with the latest update, after their opening moves the AI quickly resorts to their usual unrealistic constant looping, (at least with A.I. in F-5 and later gen aircraft)
Yea calculating PFMs for A.I. would certainly put additional strain on the cpu,but then again , if DCS would support multiple cores , the impact would be dampened.
Certainly hope the A.I.will eventually be equipped with PFM as it would make the sim hugely more realistic, especially for the users that mostly play single player.
Don‘t think that minor tweaks to the present system would have the effect.
But still appreciate ED working on this badly overdue overhaul.


regards,


Snappy.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:52 PM   #29
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Snappy, you don't seem to understand what a PFM or SFM actually are. The AI does not need full ''wind tunnel'' style modeling. That's a fact. The absence of that level of detail is wholly unnoticeable. It is literally a collossal waste of resources to do that.

None of the things you mention require such a thing, merely the tweaking of the existing FM. Protip: virtually every simulator out there has what we would consider a SFM. Yet, they all work just fine. The FM needs tweaking, that's it.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:56 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Snappy View Post
Don‘t agree at all.The SFM in itself is a problem and is lacking in more areas than „minor“/finer things like prop eng torque and departures.
I wouldn't consider those minor things. The AI actively abuses the lack of punishment from either effect.



Quote:
Amongst other things,the stellar acceleration from near stall speed to high speed for aircraft which aren‘t capable of that is one huge issue, which makes low speed , high aoa fights completely unrealistic and funless, as the A.I. regains energy absurdly .
This more likely due to poorly set SFM parameters. PFM would be just as bad if the lift/drag values were wrong. Also don't forget that player aircraft were SFM at one point far back in time. They didn't display the issues that the AI does, or at least not as badly.

Quote:
Besides in my experience, even with the latest update, after their opening moves the AI quickly resorts to their usual unrealistic constant looping, (at least with A.I. in F-5 and later gen aircraft)
My last bout of testing involved the F-15 and Su-27. I was in the F-15, the Flanker did loop, but not eternally and surprisingly it did go vertical with an energy disadvantage. It also tried to force me to overshoot a couple of times by slowing down with the airbrake. It wouldn't surprised me if the AI performance varied on a plane by plane basis, so maybe I'll look at the F-5 later.





Quote:
Yea calculating PFMs for A.I. would certainly put additional strain on the cpu,but then again , if DCS would support multiple cores , the impact would be dampened.
Certainly hope the A.I.will eventually be equipped with PFM as it would make the sim hugely more realistic, especially for the users that mostly play single player.
Don‘t think that minor tweaks to the present system would have the effect.
But still appreciate ED working on this badly overdue overhaul.


regards,


Snappy.
Full PFM for the AI would be fantastic, but I don't feel that it's realistic or necessary, even with multi CPU support. A simpler version of the player PFM might be possible, where the AI aircraft is broken down into components but at a coarser level than player aircraft. However finding the balance between performance, accuracy, and coding time might be more complicated in that case.
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