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Major F-15 Take-off Issue


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Hey guys; I actually stop flying the F15 because it continued to veer left increasingly with speed. It got to be uncontrollable for me, even with the use of my rudder and I have been with this product since its been out, so its not inexperience. I thought it would be fixed in an update, but no such luck. I'll try adjusting my Axis controls again; maybe it is my mistake. Note: I am happy with the SU27 and SU33 for now.

 

Really strange that I just had it happen to me yesterday for the first time flying multiplayer. As mentioned it doesn't happen to me when off line flying.

 

I'd like to add, the F-15 is overly sensitive on nose wheel steering to start with when landing.


Edited by fitness88
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I'd like to add, the F-15 is overly sensitive on nose wheel steering to start with when landing.

 

Why would you use nose wheel steering when landing? Keep it off until you are ready to taxi.

 

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Do you mean the S key for maneuvering range? You can't turn NWS off afaik in DCS or RL.

 

@svend You're right ARI should be disengaged on takeoff and landing, not modeled currently. It's hard to find data as to what CAS should be doing with wheels on the ground during takeoff roll.

 

Edit: Just found this, definitely read:

[ame=https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1973/1973%20-%202800.PDF]http://https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1973/1973%20-%202800.PDF[/ame]

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But it's not done IRL AFAIK.

 

As far as you know.

 

It could be SOP, it may be situational, it may not- that wasn't the item of contention. What was is that maneuvering NWS couldn't be deactivated in the F-15C, and that is false in accordance with the -1.

 

Beyond that, the real point of discussion is not the function of NWS in the Eagle-C, but the fact that it is exhibiting a tendency in multiplayer that it does not in off-line usage. Whether one or the other is the correct tendency isn't the issue, but the fact that the employment of steering methodology on take off is different, when in fact they should be the same.

 

Now, do I think somebody is running around in the 45-degree maneuver mode on TO? Nope- because that's asking for trouble. And the short travel range deactivates as soon as the strut first extends.


Edited by lunaticfringe
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I'm glad you brought this up. There was another thread about it that fizzled out. The VA server always has a crosswind. The last time I flew it was 4 m/s which is roughly 7 knots. I definitely think there is an FM issue here. The F-15 will start veering even when taxiiing at 20 knots. I've read the F-15 is capable of taking off with a 40 knot crosswind.

 

Even in the real world, aircrafts are noticeably affected by crosswind even when taxiing at low speeds. This is not an FM issue here. All of you who fly planes in real life will know.

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Even in the real world, aircrafts are noticeably affected by crosswind even when taxiing at low speeds. This is not an FM issue here. All of you who fly planes in real life will know.

 

Yep, it's been 20+ years, but from what I remember flying DHC-1 Chipmunks, prop engine + crosswind = good leg workout on takeoff and landing :)

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After aerodynamic braking is finished and the nose wheel finally, gently touches the runway the plane is still going around +-100kts. That's too fast for stable nose wheel steering so you disconnect NWS and use only rudder steering till around 50kts. Up till now everything is controllable. The transition from only rudder steering to now engaging the NWS has to be done very carefully otherwise you'll find the plane swerving left/right.

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As far as you know.

 

It could be SOP, it may be situational, it may not- that wasn't the item of contention. What was is that maneuvering NWS couldn't be deactivated in the F-15C, and that is false in accordance with the -1.

 

Beyond that, the real point of discussion is not the function of NWS in the Eagle-C, but the fact that it is exhibiting a tendency in multiplayer that it does not in off-line usage. Whether one or the other is the correct tendency isn't the issue, but the fact that the employment of steering methodology on take off is different, when in fact they should be the same.

 

Now, do I think somebody is running around in the 45-degree maneuver mode on TO? Nope- because that's asking for trouble. And the short travel range deactivates as soon as the strut first extends.

 

So we don't know.

As i wrote a few posts up I too find the takeoff in a crosswind a bit messed up, but I don't think the FM is finished and I'm not so sure it ever will be.

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In the interest of research I tried 4 m/s and 8 m/s crosswind takeoffs offline and then got on the Virtual Aerobatics server to test taking of there (Kras-Pash).

 

While the F-15 does seem to be touchier than the Su-27 or Su-25 when it comes to crosswinds, I had no issues taxiing at 4 m/s crosswinds. At 8 m/s taxiing again was no problem, but the weathervaning and roll are potentially dangerous if you're not expecting them. It only starts to show up around 50 kts IAS though.

 

 

I should note that my latency to the VA server was only 50 ms. If the single player/multi-player difference people are seeing is due to latency issues, then it's possible that my latency was not enough to cause a noticeable effect.

 

In particular, I wonder if wind forces are sent back and forth between server and client and maybe people are getting "gusts" of wind force when the server and client synchronize?

 

At any rate, I could not reproduce the effect that the thread is talking about.

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Also, you guys have probably seen before, but here's a technique for landing in the game.

 

There are some issues with how the tyres are simulated (maybe too much friction, maybe not enough deformation?) so that technique has to be used. In reality I think the tyres will just skid a bit and then try to make you run straight.

 

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I use 'Nose Gear Steering Disengage' because as mentioned when the nose wheel comes down and touches the runway the plane is still going around +-100kts. Rudder is still the most controllable way at that speed to keep the plane going straight. As you're slowing down to around 50kts rudder steering is no longer effective that's when nose wheel steering gets engaged. When you try and steer down the runway with NWS over 50kts the plane swerves all over the runway.

 

Older commercial aircraft had the same system but with the newer aircraft like 777 it's all done automatically. I believe above 80kts is when NWS disengages and below that speed it auto engages.


Edited by fitness88
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What, if anything, does the -1 say about cross-wind landings?

System Spec: Cooler Master Cosmos C700P Black Edition case. | AMD 5950X CPU | MSI RTX-3090 GPU | 32GB HyperX Predator PC4000 RAM | | TM Warthog stick & throttle | TrackIR 5 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 4 SSD 1TB (boot) | Samsung 870 QVO SSD 4TB (games) | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.

 

Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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Land straight and let the tyres do the work. Doesn't work in game because the landing gear is far too rigid (no tyre deformation, minimal skidding, maybe not enough shock absorption in the struts, so you get bounced badly).

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Land straight and let the tyres do the work. Doesn't work in game because the landing gear is far too rigid (no tyre deformation, minimal skidding, maybe not enough shock absorption in the struts, so you get bounced badly).

 

I'm a bit surprised, I was always under the impression that aircraft tyres aren't designed to experience significant side force in the same way as e.g. high speed car tyres, but but fair enough. I guess tyres are comparatively cheap compared to other components.

 

Does the manual mention anything about maximum safe cross wind speed, maximum off-runway-axis wind angle etc? I tried searching for the -1 but could only find one that's behind a paywall.

 

As an aside, while watching the F-15C landing video you linked I suddenly realised that cross-wind landings are maybe the one situation in which I really miss not having a FPM in the Su-27. You do learn to get some sort of feel for what your total velocity vector actually is, but it's definitely not as good as having one accurately computed & displayed for you on the HuD. Don't really miss it otherwise, but it's incredibly useful in that situation.

System Spec: Cooler Master Cosmos C700P Black Edition case. | AMD 5950X CPU | MSI RTX-3090 GPU | 32GB HyperX Predator PC4000 RAM | | TM Warthog stick & throttle | TrackIR 5 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 4 SSD 1TB (boot) | Samsung 870 QVO SSD 4TB (games) | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.

 

Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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I'll try to get more details later.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you but the -1 says to maintain the crab until touchdown.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't give any information about crosswind controls on taxi/takeoff roll.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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It has definitely amused me reading all these posts. This is the point where I wish an actual F-15 pilot would show up.

 

NWS should disengage above 80 knots. It should disable when the front strut is extended and ARI should disengage at wheel spin up.

 

When I spoke to my cousin about NWS in the f15 he clearly stated it was on at all times that there was weight on the wheels. He did not mention about shutting it off manually

image1.thumb.PNG.d8de11f7a811b2d774c109a47910db37.PNG

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For the WIN

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If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
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When I spoke to my cousin about NWS in the f15 he clearly stated it was on at all times that there was weight on the wheels. He did not mention about shutting it off manually

thanks for sharing !

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