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Extreme ballooning over deck after 8/15 update?


Nealius

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That one has nothing to do with the cat... it's a repeatable bug with a flaps AUTO takeoff. If you cycle the flaps below 250, the pitch wind-up will stop. Definitely an error in the code.

 

Flaps Auto?????

 

Never! Always flaps half and trim set for the weight of the aircraft. What you just stated isn't a bug!

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Yeah a lot of things changed :

 

-In the break I could be trimmed on speed and all dirty just before returning wings level on the 180. Now I am still too fast when coming out of the break(170-180kts)

 

-The beak radius as changed, before a well executed break would put at 1.2nm when a beam of the boat, now it is 1.0nm

 

-Same thing for when turning 30°AOB on speed, it use to be that the diameter of that turn was 1.2nm now it is more like 1.0nm

 

- it seems the FCS has more trouble keeping the on-speed, I am perfectly in the center of the E-bracket when flying level, but during the turn, if I don't correct my self I easily go to the edges of the E-bracket. I don't think it was the case before.

 

-Ball flying is much harder, it seems like throttle response is more sensitive.

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To make things clear, I never normally take off with flaps up. I did it to test what would happen. I expected to go into the drink but it did the opposite and acted like it had flaps full and a half or something so no user error...it was done on purpose. Thank you to aaron886 for making the bug known to me.

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yeah, regardless of whether you are supposed to, its definitely not supposed to go SpaceX on you if you do. It is a bug of some sort I would think. albeit a defeatable one. Still, it'd be nice to have accurate dynamics should someone dork it up. that's the point of all this.

 

Was playing with the break last night and something occurred to me while reconciling the case 1 chart with something Jello said on TFPP which helped with the fighting to get on speed...

 

I was always trying to fly the break turn as a full 180-degree arc at 1% speed in G (at least at the start) and wondering why I was coming up short of DME or was falling short of G to get the DME I needed, but not bleeding nearly enough speed off, having to keep my speedbrake out until well established on downwind to even get slow enough to dirty up.

 

But Jello had said something either in an email on the podcast about the remainder of the turn being modulated G to arrive on DME, and then while looking at the chart it dawned on me, you can even see it in the illustration...the turn isn't fully continuous. It's more of a quarter turn at 1% speed in G (snap, pull 3.5G from 350 kts), semi-level out, you'll be at 250, dirty up, then make another quarter turn to establish downwind, which if pulled hard enough can bleed enough speed to get right into the 140s, and trim on speed during the turn, and dropping the vv a bit to arrive downwind, dirty, 1.2nm abeam, on speed, level, 600ft AGL. A beautiful thing. I find if I break at 1nm off the bow, I am only downwind for a few seconds before calling abeam.

 

Then the trouble begins. I am wrestling with the new dynamics in the 180 >:(

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Flaps Auto?????

 

Never! Always flaps half and trim set for the weight of the aircraft. What you just stated isn't a bug!

 

That's user error. You don't take off with flaps AUTO. Flaps HALF, whether taking off from ground or cat.

 

Real quick to state the obvious, thanks guys. If you take off with flaps AUTO, however, you’ll get that pitch integrator wind-up every time. I’m helping Laithar corroborate his finding. Believe me, it’s a bug.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Has something changed in the FM again?

 

For the life of me, I can't prevent ballooning over the deck. I'm solid on the ball until I cross the ramp, then even with a preemptive power reduction, bam, ball flies off the top and I hit a 4 wire or (more often) bolter.

 

I feel like I had this down for the longest time, then suddenly, I'm doing missing. Was there another FM change or am I just plateauing?

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Has something changed in the FM again?

 

For the life of me, I can't prevent ballooning over the deck. I'm solid on the ball until I cross the ramp, then even with a preemptive power reduction, bam, ball flies off the top and I hit a 4 wire or (more often) bolter.

 

I feel like I had this down for the longest time, then suddenly, I'm doing missing. Was there another FM change or am I just plateauing?

 

The ball goes from a 16’ sensitivity per cell vertically at the start down to 1’ vertically at touchdown. The smallest power changes make a large difference, and once the power is in there’s no undoing it. If it’s relatively difficult, that’s because it is. Just keep practicing, feels pretty close to realistic

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Just keep practicing, feels pretty close to realistic

 

When I'm level in the grove, on speed & ball centered.

 

If I add a "little power" it gains allot of extra lift & "balloons" as some call it.

If I decrease a "little power" nothing is happening & I have to decrease more then "little power", some times all the way to idle. (before the DCS F18 FM was the other way around).

 

What I mean is that the gain & decrease in lift isn't proportional, compered to throttle movement. Is that how the RL jet behaves?

Maybe the engine spool-down time is slower then spool-up time?

 

Would be great to hear your explanation on that :thumbup:./Thanx


Edited by CoBlue

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When I'm level in the grove, on speed & ball centered.

 

If I add a "little power" it gains allot of extra lift & "balloons" as some call it.

 

If I decrease a "little power" nothing is happening & I have to decrease more then "little power", some times all the way to idle.

 

 

What I mean is that the gain & decrease in lift isn't proportional, compered to throttle movement. Is that how the RL jet behaves?

 

Maybe the engine spool-down time is slower then spool-up time?

 

 

Would be great to hear your explanation on that :thumbup:.

 

IRL you don't just add power, you add a little, pull it back a little, and try to find the new neutral power point. It's a constant battle to try to find it. This doesn't mean that you should be slamming the throttle to mil stop and idle stop the entire way down (looking at you, super-E video), but your left hand will be moving the entire time. That being said, a little power in close is essentially a thought of power. You should be proactive with your ball flying though, accepting a center ball isn't your goal, but instead to show up at the start on glideslope, bump it up just a touch in the middle then SLOWLY set it back down on the datums. If you're high at the start look to slowly step the ball down to touchdown. If you're high in-close, keep the ball from rising, and at most your goal is to cut the height in half at touchdown.

 

Second point, the amount of throw you have in your HOTAS throttle is not 1:1 with the IRL throttle movement. Check it out next time in game, look down in game at your throttle and move it a little, it will actually displace the in game throttle a little more.

 

Thirdly, if you're on the high side of the lens you are flying a steeper glideslope, so your neutral power point will be farther back, and your throttle will have to be back even more-so to come down. That being said, keep the ball on the happy side, don't be low (not even on touchdown). You will trap with a stable ball (not climbing) on the lens no matter how high. That being said, your problem is likely to do with adding too much power, the aircraft have inertia and won't immediately start descending (or climbing).

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I’ve started preemptively reducing a fair bit of power just as I cross the ramp. Basically just slowly easing off, but more than I think I should that close in. The ball stays stable with consistent 3 wires now. It almost seems like ground effect is having a large (disproportionately large?) effect.

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Need to be careful with the throttle when coming wings level into the groove as you have much more power from energizing the system for the correct descent rate from the 180 bank. Back off the throttle as you come out wings level so you don't start this ballooning transition when entering the groove. I was doing his a one point until watching Lex's video's on how to energize the system then catch it as you roll in. The opposite when rolling wings level as you will gain lift with the energy that's already in the system to hold the bank angle.

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I have a Rift now flying VR, I noticed I'm off from the ball frequently, but that's just also hard to see with this unruly gadget.

 

So instead I mostly fly the ICLS down to the deck, which at 30knt sea state bounces around quite severely (the only way I like it) and the aim is to just 'be' at that crucial spot a couple of seconds away from the stern and the height at this location timed with regards to the deck movement and its momentum of going either up or down,

 

and one then just lands the aircraft in a kind of a “Zen” action, with in mind, somewhat ball position, a lot of velocity vector guidance, a lot of the history of the last 10 seconds of the ICLS's horizontal bar movement, somewhat the view and change of the horizon, somewhat the view and change of the calculated whereabouts of the hull, a lot of what you remember of your speed ribbon’s most recent readouts indicating your velocity going either up or down, accelerating or decelerating either fast or slow,

 

and lately I keep a close eye concerning the very outer corner of my right peripheral vision, to see there the arrival of that radar structure afore the Bridge Island, which indicates the spot about a yard afore the cable no.3 position on the deck,

 

and your arrestor hook location as projected a plane length away from the rear of your rectum when one is in the correct alpha with the plane, needing to touch the deck there, thus where if need be, I cut the throttle to make one slam onto the deck which helps the trapping of the hook.

 

Overall most of this is Zen though, is how you handle a bow and arrow

(would this help you in any way? I'm having doubts as I'm writing this down :) ).


Edited by majapahit

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