Improved Spotting

I would have LOVED to have some large pixels and an easy spotting feature! :(

And when the aircraft in DCS got a fraction of a degree arc of vision bellow the size of that MASSIVE pixel it disappeared and stopped being rendered. See the problem? (pardon the pun)

Crumpp,

You're not alone. As you know, since we've flown together in the past, there are plenty of people who prefer the challenge of difficult aircraft spotting. It's the one thing I have received the most flak about (no pun intended) since I started DoW. However, a challenging experience is something the majority of us in the squad look for and have logged many many hours enjoying it the way it was. I do think the argument part of "what's real" needs to be separated from "what's best for a PC simulation" After years of hosting the server it's hard for me to recall too many RL pilots complaining about spotting in our non-modded DCS visuals. That being said, I'm all for people being able to adjust settings to allow them to enjoy DCS to its fullest. The only thing I see as crucially important is the ability to control "spotting aids" from the mission itself if we choose to do so. I think most who have done any considerable reading on WWII combat aviation can agree, good spotting skills were incredibly (if not the most) important asset when looking at the successful pilots of the era. Are we hoping to simulate a sky full of top aces from the get-go? Making spotting a single aircraft "easy" would be a big departure from historical accuracy and would remove a huge tactical element to DCS WWII dogfighting. I'm not saying we wouldn't entertain feedback & adjust missions to keep them as enjoyable as possible but I would hate to see good intentions "break" the dynamics of the experience.

So for my follow-up question, and please excuse me if it's been answered: Is there a way to lock or set this setting within the ME yet? I couldn't find it.

Ok. If watching an aircraft blink out of existence is realistic. Go for it, have fun, feel free to enjoy the sim your way. As done with this discussion as I was a year ago.

Seems perfectly reasonable even with the enlarged settings enabled now. If you are actively tracking a plane you will be able to ... even up to a several km. But you will have a very hard time picking up objects against the ground from that distance if you didn't know they were there and it is still pretty easy to lose them. How anyone can say spotting wasn't an issue is beyond me and I really enjoy open missions that require active search. We would give up exact locations with altitude and not find each other ... others would disappear right in front of you.

Well, it was not my intention to drag this up again. I was hoping we would discuss the new visibility settings.

Whether the old visibility was correct or not is a futile thing to argue about. We have thousands of different hardware and display configurations between us, so there was never going to be one solution to fit everyone.

Crumpp,

You're not alone. As you know, since we've flown together in the past, there are plenty of people who prefer the challenge of difficult aircraft spotting. It's the one thing I have received the most flak about (no pun intended) since I started DoW. However, a challenging experience is something the majority of us in the squad look for and have logged many many hours enjoying it the way it was. I do think the argument part of "what's real" needs to be separated from "what's best for a PC simulation" After years of hosting the server it's hard for me to recall too many RL pilots complaining about spotting in our non-modded DCS visuals. That being said, I'm all for people being able to adjust settings to allow them to enjoy DCS to its fullest. The only thing I see as crucially important is the ability to control "spotting aids" from the mission itself if we choose to do so. I think most who have done any considerable reading on WWII combat aviation can agree, good spotting skills were incredibly (if not the most) important asset when looking at the successful pilots of the era. Are we hoping to simulate a sky full of top aces from the get-go? Making spotting a single aircraft "easy" would be a big departure from historical accuracy and would remove a huge tactical element to DCS WWII dogfighting. I'm not saying we wouldn't entertain feedback & adjust missions to keep them as enjoyable as possible but I would hate to see good intentions "break" the dynamics of the experience.

 

So for my follow-up question, and please excuse me if it's been answered: Is there a way to lock or set this setting within the ME yet? I couldn't find it.

I agree the argument needs to be separated. Some pilots need to get with some smart computer guys and figure it out, LOL!!

:thumbup:

It was not my intention to derail Gavagai's thread. I honestly did not realize this was much of an issue, not because it was "easy" for me to spot but rather because the difficulty mirrored reality on my machine.

I'm actually finding I liked the older version better, as far as spotting goes.

Against smoke trails, the spotting range has increased significantly. But even with the rather goofy smart scaling, I have found that my personal spotting range against aircraft has dropped precipitously.

Much of this seems to be because some manner of algorithm was enacted that seems to "soften" the edges of distant targets. They seem to blur quite a bit, and it is more difficult to distinguish sharp edges. This makes it very difficult to determine the direction a contact is heading, and what maneuvers it is engaged in. It is also significantly more difficult for me, even at machine gun firing distances, to distinguish between a FW190 and P-51 than it used to be.

The transition between the scaled sprite and the 3D model seems to happen WAY too close to the player: if flickers back and forth right at the edge of gun firing range. Again, this messes with the perception of which direction the aircraft is pointed, and makes it more difficult to set up a tracking shot.

On a semi-related note, it seems that the AI FW190 has rediscovered it's diamondtanium armor, because they're back to soaking up 7 seconds of sustained .50 cal fire before they go down. In the last patch before 1.5, they took far more believable (short) bursts to kill. Some of that I can credit to slightly lower hit rates since it's harder to get a good track on them, but the new .50 cal hit flash is pretty visible, so I'm clearly not just missing them.

Of course.

 

Watching airplanes on the ground and knowing exactly to where to look is not anything like trying to spot them in air.

Its still relevant. I can land a heli 20km from an airfield and have a tanker take off... Exactly as if I was doing the same in real life. I can see em in real life and not in DCS.

Is this "model visibility" settings forced by the server or client's to choose?

I really hope, that many servers will force this setting.

Haven't tried yet the multiplayer.

Hopefully if servers are able to force the setting there will be an easy way to determine what they have it set to. I'd like to avoid servers that disallow it since I don't have a 4k monitor.

Hopefully if servers are able to force the setting there will be an easy way to determine what they have it set to. I'd like to avoid servers that disallow it since I don't have a 4k monitor.

I have a 4K screen and to be honest I don't think it adds that much to spotting. Seeing lots of detail? Yes. But spotting object is simply a factor of size and contrast and just having more pixels doesn't change that.

I'm not running the 1.5 Beta so I haven't tried the MV setting yet. With the current 1.2 version I never had any trouble seeing the WWII aircraft. It's troubling that some say you can actually see the Sprite or the transition. I was hoping for something much more subtle.

@ Crummp...

I understand where you're coming from, but the solution to solve a "problem" some had was delivered, it is an elegant solution albeit (remembering the words which came with the announcement of the solution: We don't understand why anyone would want to see targets outside of real world visual range - but if that's what floats your boat, now you will be able to".

Forcing the solution On or Off in servers is a natural progression... the also natural response to that will be "if ya don't like (on or off) don't fly on that server. It'll end up being realistic servers and air quake with visibility icons set to large servers

Seeing how this was requested by vast majority here, especially those focused on WWII prop jobs. I thank you ED for providing an elegant solution.

(remembering the words which came with the announcement of the solution: We don't understand why anyone would want to see targets outside of real world visual range - but if that's what floats your boat, now you will be able to".)

I haven't seen that announcement. Care to share a link please?

"Vast majority" is a vast exageration and revisit Twitch streams ;)

So that is a no on the link then?

Hey, if it helps to sugar coat the facts (i.e poll results) go with it. :)

I personally see this as a roleplay option: you're bad at spotting aircraft IRL and want to feel like an ace pilot with falcon eyes? Now you can! Whooo hooo!

Very happy so far with this :thumbup:

I understand some people are naturally gifted, RL elite pilots but the vast majority of us aren't (see poll results), so, kudos to ED for taking this into account.

It's also a huge plus for VR users, the resolution of it is not terribly exciting right now (but the rest is, I can assure you, I tested DK2 on DCS) and this will help VR players to enjoy their experience more ;)

@Thor...

all you have to do is look, ol' mate... PM sent -

Wolfrider,

In 1.2 you could not see aircraft that were well within real world visual range. At least, that was true for my hardware and it was true for the hardware of others. As my 7 year old son was fond of saying, "the Fockewulf 190 can disappear!"

Forcing the setting on/off will be the ultimate form of flightsim hubris, because that basically says you know what kind of hardware/display someone else has, how far he sits from his monitor, and his current age/eyesight.

If this were a different flight sim I would have a different opinion. Some other flightsims do a really good job of rendering aircraft at 1km without any tricks like icons or SS, but DCS 1.2 did not.

Seconded.

I personally see this as a roleplay option: you're bad at spotting aircraft IRL and want to feel like an ace pilot with falcon eyes? Now you can! Whooo hooo!

Very happy so far with this :thumbup:

I understand some people are naturally gifted, RL elite pilots but the vast majority of us aren't (see poll results), so, kudos to ED for taking this into account.

It's also a huge plus for VR users, the resolution of it is not terribly exciting right now (but the rest is, I can assure you, I tested DK2 on DCS) and this will help VR players to enjoy their experience more ;)

I can't tell if I am naturally gifted (most definitely not lol) but I do know what I saw with my own two eyes earlier this year from 10-11 km high when I flew to Duxford Flying Legends - cars on the highway. Having this feature, as an option, is realistic. I do realize some people do not have good eyesight. There are hardware differences too. Being it an option is great. Hats off to ED for listening.

One thing to remember though, there is a difference in being able to see (i.e. render) and being able to spot things. ;)

Sitting on the ground looking up is not spotting traffic in an aircraft.

Ok. If watching an aircraft blink out of existence is realistic. Go for it, have fun, feel free to enjoy the sim your way. As done with this discussion as I was a year ago.

I've never had this problem except maybe with that LOD issue when viewing certain aircraft from below. I agree it was very difficult to spot a single aircraft from range and yes it requires much more work by the pilot, but I am simply voicing my opinion that any mods to spotting should be optional. I don't own a 4k monitor and I've never found the spotting in DCS as upsetting as some. I think the rendering of such things can definitely be improved but I personally believe making it overly simple will result in a far less realistic experience. The term "head on a swivel" was used for a very good reason.

It is optional, just set it off in OPTIONS.

Do you even have played 1.5 beta?

It is optional, just set it off in OPTIONS.

 

Do you even have played 1.5 beta?

FTW

[...] I personally believe making it overly simple will result in a far less realistic experience. [...]

Do you think it´s overly simple now?

Personally I don´t have this impression - is it easier in specific situations to spot enemy aircraft now? Yes I think so.

But I dont think it´s overyl simple or like having "magical eyes" now where you are able to spot every contact in an instant.