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Bigger map area than normal?


MobiSev

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Since this map will be mostly water (with the resulting lack of necessity for detailed modeling) will the Marianas map be bigger than normal? Possibly EVENTUALLY (I know it will not have this initially) stretching to Iwo Jima, Palau, and Wake Island?

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FC3, M-2000C, Mig-21bis, F-5E, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, KA-50, Mi-8, F-14A&B, JF-17

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I got the free impression that it could be upto 1000*1000km, which would be amazing

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I mean if we were to go bonkers...

 

You can go around 1000km to the west before you run into the Philippines

 

You can go 1000km-ish to the north before you run into Iwo Jima

 

You can go 2000km-ish to east before you hit Wake Island

 

And you can go ~600km south (from Guam) before you hit some small atolls and some smaller islands, you can go another 1200km before you hit New Guinea.

 

In amongst all that you've got the Caroline Islands (~1300km^2 - slightly smaller than Qeshm Island on the SoH map), Wake island and Iwo Jima are both tiny ~20km^2.

 

If you go that large you'll probably run into the north-western corner of the Marshall Islands - which again are tiny - the whole of the Marshall islands is less than 200km^2, well under half the size of Guam alone.

 

So yeah you could go to 4000x2500km provided the engine allows it.

 

Of course that's the absolute extreme, but in terms of land area you're looking at around 2500-ish km^2 of land maximum (including the Marianas), which is equivalent to around 2x Qeshm Island - absolutely tiny when compared to current maps. So a truly enormous map, for not much work (obviously engine constraints permitting).


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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I love for the map to be extended to the Philippines at some point.

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I love for the map to be extended to the Philippines at some point.

Yeah if it even happens that there is no size limit for maps in DCS, Marianas has a lot of potential. I was looking into just how much land area there is in the Pacific and if you include just the small islands it's less than half the detailed area of the Hormuz map.

 

 

If you get into larger islands like the Philippines or New Zealand it's a bit bigger than current maps but not the point where it sounds unfeasible as DCS map technology improves with time.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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Forgive my cynicism but this is a free map of the Marianas....so I'm expecting the Marianas islands surrounded with the blue pacific. Thats it. they probably couldn't have picked a more remote place with nothing else to model other than Guam, the northern marianas (Rota, Saipan, Tinian) and...........the pacific.

 

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Northern+Mariana+Islands/@13.3554972,145.3534336,6.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x66d8b13490995c51:0x9db7ebab7c3a0e32!8m2!3d15.0979!4d145.6739

 

While i'm happy we're getting something new, I'm also aware of what we're not getting ie. lots of land mass. So...for MP, I'm assuming this is geared for the supercarrier so it'll be USN vs RuN carrier groups fighting it out for those islands, or maybe blue based on Guam (it is a USAF base) and Red based on Saipan. Remember we'll be using modern jets so the trip from Saipan to Guam will be maybe 20 mins (220kms/135 miles). It does seem weird we're getting a central Pacific map when all our WW2 assets are based on the ETO with no jap planes. Unless thats the 'secret new aircraft' coming. Hope not.

 

What this will also highlight is the lack of landing craft in the game. The island hopping campaign of WW2 was based on skipping certain islands and taking certain islands (cutting off the others). That meant loads of higgins boats and LCTs, etc plus rocket barges. We dont' have any of that.

 

Pls ED don't give us another map that'll get used for the first week then everybody resorts to the Black Sea map because its the most complete. I'm looking at you NTTR/Normandy (what a waste of money).

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Don't forget islands are not just sand heaps floating on the water. With every sqaure mile of open water comes the recreation of the ocean floor, which is quite interesting around Marianas especially :) Of course it can be of much lower mesh quality and no objects placed there but still some work to do, not just free open water.

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Don't forget islands are not just sand heaps floating on the water. With every sqaure mile of open water comes the recreation of the ocean floor, which is quite interesting around Marianas especially :) Of course it can be of much lower mesh quality and no objects placed there but still some work to do, not just free open water.

 

I hope they do an accurate depth map (at the moment away from land it seems completely level, not sure about depth), like you said it doesn't have to be high resolution, just so long as it's at the right depth. I suppose they could do some autogen clutter if they really wanted to.

 

What I wonder is if we'll get an actual underwater, even if it's as basic as what KSP has (literally just a solid blue gradient), though obviously what SH3 and SH4 has would be perfect (if not maybe too far).

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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Forgive my cynicism but this is a free map of the Marianas....so I'm expecting the Marianas islands surrounded with the blue pacific. Thats it. they probably couldn't have picked a more remote place with nothing else to model other than Guam, the northern marianas (Rota, Saipan, Tinian) and...........the pacific.

 

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Northern+Mariana+Islands/@13.3554972,145.3534336,6.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x66d8b13490995c51:0x9db7ebab7c3a0e32!8m2!3d15.0979!4d145.6739

 

While i'm happy we're getting something new, I'm also aware of what we're not getting ie. lots of land mass. So...for MP, I'm assuming this is geared for the supercarrier so it'll be USN vs RuN carrier groups fighting it out for those islands, or maybe blue based on Guam (it is a USAF base) and Red based on Saipan. Remember we'll be using modern jets so the trip from Saipan to Guam will be maybe 20 mins (220kms/135 miles). It does seem weird we're getting a central Pacific map when all our WW2 assets are based on the ETO with no jap planes. Unless thats the 'secret new aircraft' coming. Hope not.

 

What this will also highlight is the lack of landing craft in the game. The island hopping campaign of WW2 was based on skipping certain islands and taking certain islands (cutting off the others). That meant loads of higgins boats and LCTs, etc plus rocket barges. We dont' have any of that.

 

Pls ED don't give us another map that'll get used for the first week then everybody resorts to the Black Sea map because its the most complete. I'm looking at you NTTR/Normandy (what a waste of money).

 

I get it if it's not what your into but some people (like me) are ecstatic about a pacific map and WWII possibilities. Even if it will be a long time until it gets filled out, you have to start somewhere. Also I think this map will be great for cold war era stuff. Even if the land mass is tiny I think the jungle will be great for helicopters. ED certainly has been emphasizing the huey in its promos for it. And yes I know it would all be "what if" I still think it will see some good use.

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Don't forget islands are not just sand heaps floating on the water. With every square mile of open water comes the recreation of the ocean floor, which is quite interesting around Marianas especially :) Of course it can be of much lower mesh quality and no objects placed there but still some work to do, not just free open water.

 

Oh, you sweet summer child ;)

 

They will not be recreating the ocean floor. It will be the same as Caucasus and PG, with the sea floor being just flat vanilla terrain. There is no point to adding a detailed ocean floor as we will not be able to see it normally. It would just use up time and resources that they could use for something else.

 

The only way I have been able to see the floor is when I have fallen off the carrier due to a bug.


Edited by MobiSev

Modules owned:

 

FC3, M-2000C, Mig-21bis, F-5E, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, KA-50, Mi-8, F-14A&B, JF-17

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Yep, it's supposed today's patch do that indeed, not just "water colour" as it says in CL. Waters do have deep now, I guess they are "navigable" now or something like that so new boat types can finally make it into de game, same as torpedoes.

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Yep, it's supposed today's patch do that indeed, not just "water colour" as it says in CL. Waters do have deep now, I guess they are "navigable" now or something like that so new boat types can finally make it into de game, same as torpedoes.

 

 

 

S!

 

I see the ocean being made "deeper," but the ocean floor being modeled in detail will not happen...unless they said something I'm not aware of. If they did say they would be modeling the ocean floor, I would see that as a massive and irresponsible waste of resources.

Modules owned:

 

FC3, M-2000C, Mig-21bis, F-5E, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, KA-50, Mi-8, F-14A&B, JF-17

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We're not asking for a detailed floor, just one at the accurate depth. The resolution of the mesh and textures can be made very low, lower than pre-2.5 Caucasus map. At best it only need have low-resolution autogen scatters.

 

We currently now have 3 submarines in DCS World:

 

  • A Pr. 877V Kilo (one-boat modification of Pr. 877, fitted with a pump-jet/propulsor), all masts and antennae animated, as well as all control surfaces, including retracting/extending of the bow planes
  • Pr. 636 Improved Kilo: This is modelled to near perfection and is fully animated, (incl. everything on the Pr. 877V + outer torpedo tube doors, torpedo tube reloading adaptor hatch, and even the retractable capstans). Currently only present in the modelviewer.
  • Type 09-III/Shang class; can't say for this one as I don't have the OB, but a screenshot shows outer tube doors and a mast.

 

We have torpedoes incoming on the Ju-88 (LT I A1 F5b - probably) and on the S-100 E-boat (probably G7a). The Kilo class has 2 SLCMs present - the 3M-54E and 3M-54E1 AShMs (just no capsules, no terminal stage for the -54E and, apart from folding, no animated control surfaces).

 

2 mines are also on the official list for the Hornet - the Mk40 Destructor and the Mk63 Quickstrike; both are essentially retarded Mk83 GP bombs fitted with an influence sensor (magnetic AFAIK). Both are bottom mines meaning they sit on the sea-floor (which is why an accurate depth map becomes a little more important as these are both shallow water mines).


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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I see the ocean being made "deeper," but the ocean floor being modeled in detail will not happen...unless they said something I'm not aware of. If they did say they would be modeling the ocean floor, I would see that as a massive and irresponsible waste of resources.
Of course not "in detail", why would you want detail in ocean floor in a Flight Sim? But an elevation mesh of the ocean floor just like emerged terrain is some "detail" after all.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Bathymetry was implemented from some years ago in the TDK (Terrain Develop Kit), using real depth data.

 

The "old" TDK video from 2018, building a part of Falkland map. On minute 4:16 and after, see as implement Bathymetry with real data:

 

All actual maps except NTTR has been implemented Bathymetry. Remember, DCS World has not only a "flysim" simulator.


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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  • 3 months later...

Are we not allowed to know what the maximum map dimensions can be? I haven't seen anywhere how large a map of nothing but ocean can possibly be and what the limiting factors are. I wonder if it has something to do with curvature of the Earth and the current DCS terrain model or coordinate system may be flat-Earthed?

 

Also, I think ocean area should be contoured where depth is less than 500 feet and textured where depth is less than maybe 100 feet, putting a flat floor at maybe 2000 to 3000'. Much of the Pacific ocean is on the order of 8,000 to 12,000 feet deep, I think. Practically bottomless. Nothing goes down there, as far as I know...or if it does, it doesn't come back. I think WWII Balao-class submarines could dive to about 500-feet before things started breaking. Wikipedia says Test Depth 400 feet. But in the book about the USS Tang, the captain said he took it down to where something finally sprung a leak and that was around 500 feet. Only the crew of that sub knew how deep they went. They did not tell anyone else, not even brass. Although, the engineers that built it, probably had an idea. It was a closely guarded secret. I know this is a "flight simulator" but being able to command submarines and surface ships would be a whole new ballgame for DCS. That would be pretty danged cool. It should take less computing power than simulating an aircraft. Although, sub patrols are lots of boredom getting into a firing solution. Not much in the way of scenery when submerged...like absolutely none below periscope depth. :) I very high fidelity sonar simulation might be cool. And being able to move to all the various compartments in the boat would be a cool thing, too. Not a thing for the arcade-minded, blow-it-up-again-and-again DCS flyers. :)


Edited by Andrew8604
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