Jump to content

Boeing pitching the F-15 to Germany


Hummingbird

Recommended Posts

Given their posture „to favor a European solution“, one really wonders what criteria caused the F-35 to be out of scope while the Super Hornet remains in the race. They‘ve been pretty clear on this so I doubt Airbus really has to fear any competition - and accordingly Germany has few arguments at hand to push Airbus for a competitive offer... really weird stuff.

A wild guess: the reasons why the F-35 got knocked out, might be because it's still a very new platform with the typical quirks and problems that every new system has, especially if it is such a complicated system like the F-35. The german MOD has made some pretty bad experiences with unproven systems in the past few years, so that might be the reason why the F-35 is out and the F/A-18 is still in. The F/A-18 is a platform that is well proven and capable to do the required tasks of nuclear bombing and SEAD and in it's G-Variant it can even do EW, which might be a consideration by the MOD.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could also be that while the F-35 is about as expensive as a Typhoon, the Super Hornet is cheaper (I'm pretty sure at least?), so the German MoD is thinking "either cheap and American, or expensive and European (and partially built in Germany), definitely not expensive and American". It would also explain why they aren't thinking "cheap and European" and looking at the Gripen I suppose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The F/A-18 is a platform that is well proven and capable to do the required tasks of nuclear bombing [...].

 

I am sure I‘ve read somewhere that is is not. Or at least that, in order for the Luftwaffe to use the Rhino in the nuclear role, it had to undergo basically the same sort of certificiation and approval from the MoD that a Eurofighter woukd have to (...admittedly, a US-built design might mean the process would get a bit more love and support from the authorities compared to a foreign design).

 

[...]and SEAD and in it's G-Variant it can even do EW, which might be a consideration by the MOD).

 

That in turn sounds like a valid argument since the ECR Tornados would also need a replacement. Nevertheless I believe the F-35 with all its bells and whistles and a mature software block will prove to be an even better asset in the SEAD role and electronic warfare as a whole one day. All previous aircraft model that served in this role since Wild Weasels were born in the Vietnam days were derivates from existing fighters and attack planes. As are the Tornado and the Growler.

 

Another argument pro F-35 might be commonality with other European air forces who operate the same model. Leaving out France, of course, most important European air forces have decided for the F-35. That can provide benefits with spare part pooling and shared training. On the other side, no other European nation has decided for Super Hornets yet, there are a few opportunities though (Finland, Spain, Poland, Switzerland). And, by the time when Germany will finally declare IOC of either jet, the Growler will be a 20+ year old derivate of an 30+ year old design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like the Luftwaffe just went for a bunch of new Eurofighters: Milliardenauftrag für Airbus: Bundeswehr bestellt 33 Eurofighter

 

(Billion Euro order with Airbus: Bundeswehr orders 33 Eurofighters)

 

However, the article specifically states these are to replace Tranche 1 Eurofighters, they're not meant to replace the Tornado fleet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sure I‘ve read somewhere that is is not. Or at least that, in order for the Luftwaffe to use the Rhino in the nuclear role, it had to undergo basically the same sort of certificiation and approval from the MoD that a Eurofighter woukd have to (...admittedly, a US-built design might mean the process would get a bit more love and support from the authorities compared to a foreign design).

The Hornet is already certified for the nuclear role, as it was (maybe still is) tasked to fulfill that role for the USN.

 

The problem with such a certification for the Eurofighter is, that the US require a deep insight into the aircraft in order to get certified, which is definitely something that the Europeans don't want.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with such a certification for the Eurofighter is, that the US require a deep insight into the aircraft in order to get certified, which is definitely something that the Europeans don't want.

Can't see why. It's a bomb. Just need weight and loading flight tests, plus release test and weapon integration. EMP proofing upgrade is probably the largest factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't see why. It's a bomb. Just need weight and loading flight tests, plus release test and weapon integration. EMP proofing upgrade is probably the largest factor.

 

The fusing and security of a nuke need to be pretty precise, you don't really want them being dropped unauthorised or on the wrong targets......

 

Nukes have a few extra requirements than your typical dumb bomb. The ballistic challenge of getting one in the correct place is the easy part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Hornet is already certified for the nuclear role, as it was (maybe still is) tasked to fulfill that role for the USN.

 

The problem with such a certification for the Eurofighter is, that the US require a deep insight into the aircraft in order to get certified, which is definitely something that the Europeans don't want.

 

From what I read, the Hornet is certified for B-61, but not the Super Hornet.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe is a good time to think about the use of nukes for Germany, I can’t imaging any scenario where a free fall nuke could make difference, if looking on modern ICBM with multiply MIRV warheads, with high precision, I mean if all the missile based nuke are used, what is left to be nuked? And if, makes more sense to have a stand-off missile like the Taurus to deliver the nuke.

Maybe integrate the French Nuke missile that they use on the 2000D.

 

Germany has no control about the nukes, remember the time we had to remove special weapon equipment from the Tornado as we go over the pond to have training there, was 1993.

 

Anyway, finally is al about lobbying, get the right people, just look back on the F-104

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe is a good time to think about the use of nukes for Germany, I can’t imaging any scenario where a free fall nuke could make difference, if looking on modern ICBM with multiply MIRV warheads, with high precision, I mean if all the missile based nuke are used, what is left to be nuked? And if, makes more sense to have a stand-off missile like the Taurus to deliver the nuke.

Maybe integrate the French Nuke missile that they use on the 2000D.

 

Germany has no control about the nukes, remember the time we had to remove special weapon equipment from the Tornado as we go over the pond to have training there, was 1993.

 

Anyway, finally is al about lobbying, get the right people, just look back on the F-104

That was my point, the only reason aerial bomb nukes are still in service is to allow for a non-all-out response like ICBMs + SLBMs, and the INF banned ground-launched BMs and CMs with decent range. But now the INF is gone you don't need the planes at all but if you do, then CMs are still the way to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh, just noticed they now have nozzle petals in this upgrade.

 

Those are General Electic F110-GE-129 engines, which always have petals installed. The Pratt & Whitney engines never do (when installed on Eagles), with the exception of the Israeli F-15I Ra'am I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...