Boeing pitching the F-15 to Germany

Heard rumors that Boeing is advertising the F-15 to Germany as a replacement for the Tornados soon to be phased out.

First thought that strikes my mind then is wether or not it wouldn't be better to acquire the F-35 instead then, as it seems to suite the bomber role better IMHO.

In addition to this Germany & France are both working on a 5th gen air superiority fighter to replace the EF2000 sometime in the 2020's.

I doubt the F-15 has any chance. The F-35 has stealth, is generally more advanced and apparently cheaper too. Germany would get Block 4 jets in the mid 2020s, when the plane is in full rate production and matured.

Airbus has proposed an upgraded Typhoon variant optimized for the strike role. It would secure jobs in Germany and maintain the industrial base until the new fighter, developed with France, will be ready. Additionally and all Typhoon force should be cheaper to operate.

The politicians are favoring the Eurofighter while the Luftwaffe wants the F-35.

Heard rumors that Boeing is advertising the F-15 to Germany as a replacement for the Tornados soon to be phased out.

 

First thought that strikes my mind then is wether or not it wouldn't be better to acquire the F-35 instead then, as it seems to suite the bomber role better IMHO.

I think they're looking for a gap filler until their 5th gen project bears fruition.

In addition to this Germany & France are both working on a 5th gen air superiority fighter to replace the EF2000 sometime in the 2020's.

I think you mean 2030s, there's no way they'll have anything approaching IOC until after 2030. For Rafale and Typhoon it took 9 years from production prototype to IOC and right now they don't even have a pre-production prototype and it's 2019. If they could then they likely wouldn't be considering an F-15.

I think the Typhoon is the better one for the German Airforce, simplify the whole logistic and training, also technology wise, the frame, aerodynamic and engines are much more advanced than the F-15, and most important, we can get spare parts, even if have political crysis over the Atlantic.

I locking forward to see what will be the next generation of European fighter jet

The Luftwaffe is looking for a replacement for its aging Tornados. The competitors are the Eurofighter Typhoon, the F-35, the F/A-18 Super Hornet and the F-15.

While the Luftwaffe favors the F-35, the politicians favor the Eurofighter. The former chief of staff of the Luftwaffe had to resign last year, because he spoke out too loudly in public in favor of the F-35. The decision has been postponed multiple times in the past months, which shows how complicated this decision is.

The politicians favor the Eurofighter mostly because of economic reasons, as they want to support the german and european industry (Airbus). Apart from not being stealthy, the problem with the Eurofighter is, that it is not capable of employing nuclear weapons, which is one of the tasks of the Tornado. Another important capability of the Tornado that the Eurofighter can't fulfill is SEAD.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end. Some experts speculate, that the ministy of defense might choose the Eurofighter as the main replacement for the Tornado, but will also acquire a very small fleet of F-35s for the SEAD and nuclear strike roles.

I think the Typhoon is the better one for the German Airforce, simplify the whole logistic and training, also technology wise, the frame, aerodynamic and engines are much more advanced than the F-15, and most important, we can get spare parts, even if have political crysis over the Atlantic.

I locking forward to see what will be the next generation of European fighter jet

Yeah, EMP-proofed Typhoon with CFTs. Common spares, logistics and training plus German jobs benefit.

The Luftwaffe is looking for a replacement for its aging Tornados. The competitors are the Eurofighter Typhoon, the F-35, the F/A-18 Super Hornet and the F-15.

While the Luftwaffe favors the F-35, the politicians favor the Eurofighter. The former chief of staff of the Luftwaffe had to resign last year, because he spoke out too loudly in public in favor of the F-35. The decision has been postponed multiple times in the past months, which shows how complicated this decision is.

 

The politicians favor the Eurofighter mostly because of economic reasons, as they want to support the german and european industry (Airbus). Apart from not being stealthy, the problem with the Eurofighter is, that it is not capable of employing nuclear weapons, which is one of the tasks of the Tornado. Another important capability of the Tornado that the Eurofighter can't fulfill is SEAD.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end. Some experts speculate, that the ministy of defense might choose the Eurofighter as the main replacement for the Tornado, but will also acquire a very small fleet of F-35s for the SEAD and nuclear strike roles.

It would be possible to integrate AARGM onto Typhoon or proceed with the talked-about ARM version of Meteor. The problem with the F-35, as well as the political one, is that the Franco-German 5th gen jet will likely replace it post 2030, and it would seem silly to replace the F-35 so early. They will again want to maximise production volume of their 5th gen for jobs etc.

It would be possible to integrate AARGM onto Typhoon or proceed with the talked-about ARM version of Meteor. The problem with the F-35, as well as the political one, is that the Franco-German 5th gen jet will likely replace it post 2030, and it would seem silly to replace the F-35 so early. They will again want to maximise production volume of their 5th gen for jobs etc.

The weapon is less of a problem. The Tornado ECR is a highly specialized SEAD aircraft (like the F-4G Wild Weasel and the E/A-18G Growler) with an onboard Emitter Location System that can detect, analyze and locate all kind of radar emitters very effectively. The Eurofighter does not have such a system.

The weapon is less of a problem. The Tornado ECR is a highly specialized SEAD aircraft (like the F-4G Wild Weasel and the E/A-18G Growler) with an onboard Emitter Location System that can detect, analyze and locate all kind of radar emitters very effectively. The Eurofighter does not have such a system.

Neither did the Tornado, Phantom or Super Hornet when they entered service though, so it's not like it's impossible to implement those (assuming they have the budget to do it, which with the German question is a huge if in my opinion).

Realistically, there is a strong desire to keep the Typhoon production lines running, and that alone really helps in making it favorite. It's also a good excuse to keep the production lines open in the hope that somebody will order some Tranche 3Bs.

Also I just realized that the irony of it all is that one of the big reasons why France left the consortium was that they wanted swing-role capabilities, while the other nations did not. Yet here we are with Germany and the UK both retreating the Tornado, one is contemplating seriously buying extra Typhoons for the A2G role while the other has already integrated all sorts of air to surface weapons in it.

Also I just realized that the irony of it all is that one of the big reasons why France left the consortium was that they wanted swing-role capabilities, while the other nations did not. Yet here we are with Germany and the UK both retreating the Tornado, one is contemplating seriously buying extra Typhoons for the A2G role while the other has already integrated all sorts of air to surface weapons in it.

While the UK has indeed implemented much more A2G weapons in their Typhoons than Germany, they also neither have SEAD nor nuclear capabilities implemented.

While the UK has indeed implemented much more A2G weapons in their Typhoons than Germany, they also neither have SEAD nor nuclear capabilities implemented.

True, but they don't need to because they had the Tornado and will have the F-35 for that role (and the same goes for Italy). Germany is the only nation so far to choose between the Typhoon and F-35 to replace a strictly A2G platform.

Indeed and I really wonder what the decision will be like.

I am sure the ELS can be added by pods, I remember some years ago, that there was a development plan to build an Anti Radar missile based on the Meteor missile.

The question is stealth really the most important for future conflicts, or is the economic factor much more important ?

I believe that future conflicts are similar to current conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan, Steahlt was not necesssry to operate in those conflicts.

Another Point ist to be independent from the USA, as current situation shows how fast the relationship can change, no spare parts, no flights

Neither did the Tornado, Phantom or Super Hornet when they entered service though, so it's not like it's impossible to implement those (assuming they have the budget to do it, which with the German question is a huge if in my opinion).

 

Realistically, there is a strong desire to keep the Typhoon production lines running, and that alone really helps in making it favorite. It's also a good excuse to keep the production lines open in the hope that somebody will order some Tranche 3Bs.

 

Also I just realized that the irony of it all is that one of the big reasons why France left the consortium was that they wanted swing-role capabilities, while the other nations did not. Yet here we are with Germany and the UK both retreating the Tornado, one is contemplating seriously buying extra Typhoons for the A2G role while the other has already integrated all sorts of air to surface weapons in it.

I'm not convinced that standard DASS doesn't do enough of a job to cue the missile anyway. The UK Tornado was not an ECR variant and was still able to use ALARM.

France left Eurofighter because it wanted a carrier version, not because of swing-role capability.

That's interesting. I thought it was a combination of both.

I am sure the ELS can be added by pods, I remember some years ago, that there was a development plan to build an Anti Radar missile based on the Meteor missile.

The question is stealth really the most important for future conflicts, or is the economic factor much more important ?

I believe that future conflicts are similar to current conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan, Steahlt was not necesssry to operate in those conflicts.

 

Another Point ist to be independent from the USA, as current situation shows how fast the relationship can change, no spare parts, no flights

I'm not convinced that standard DASS doesn't do enough of a job to cue the missile anyway. The UK Tornado was not an ECR variant and was still able to use ALARM.

 

France left Eurofighter because it wanted a carrier version, not because of swing-role capability.

Using ARMs without any specialized equipment works of course, as you can see with the Hornet in DCS, but it only offers very basic functionality. Pods are a possibility, as the USAF does with their F-16s, but they are also not as effective as a sophisticated ELS. The HTS-Pod of the F-16 doesn't come close to the ability of the ELS system of the F-4G Phantom in regards to detecting, locating and analyzing radar signals.

Using ARMs without any specialized equipment works of course, as you can see with the Hornet in DCS, but it only offers very basic functionality. Pods are a possibility, as the USAF does with their F-16s, but they are also not as effective as a sophisticated ELS. The HTS-Pod of the F-16 doesn't come close to the ability of the ELS system of the F-4G Phantom in regards to detecting, locating and analyzing radar signals.

Standard DASS is a pretty large step-up on legacy RWR systems though. It's good to within less than 0.5 degrees on bearing and azimuth and of course radar has an A2G mode for detecting targets (as used with Brimstone) to provide additional accuracy. And of course the missile has passive homing and active MWR for terminal guidance (just like Brimstone for terminal guidance).

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/01/31/germany-officially-knocks-f-35-out-of-competition-to-replace-tornado/

And there's the answer. Really weird that they would still consider the Super Hornet though, at this point it feels like they might as well go ahead and just order the Typhoon.

Maybe Germany should consider the Rafale with French nukes, than the money and competence stays in Europe, and not relay on the current unstable partner over the Atlantic.

Alternative would be to modify the Typhoon to use French Nukes......

Does someone know the Britisch Typhoon can carry nukes ?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/01/31/germany-officially-knocks-f-35-out-of-competition-to-replace-tornado/

 

 

And there's the answer. Really weird that they would still consider the Super Hornet though, at this point it feels like they might as well go ahead and just order the Typhoon.

My initial reaction too. Heck, just call it for the Typhoon. ;)

Does someone know the Britisch Typhoon can carry nukes ?

No, the British free fall nukes were retired late 1990s.

No, the British free fall nukes were retired late 1990s.

And the UK is not part of the US/NATO nuke sharing programme, so there is no need for B61 capability or UK Typhoons. The Royal navy Trident II SLBMs are the only nuclear weapons in the UK arsenal at the moment.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/germany-fighter-jet-order-airbus-boeing-sources-201627187--business.html

Germany drops F-35 from fighter tender; Boeing F/A-18 and Eurofighter to battle on

Does it mean F-15?

Nop it means Super Hornet.

Given their posture „to favor a European solution“, one really wonders what criteria caused the F-35 to be out of scope while the Super Hornet remains in the race. They‘ve been pretty clear on this so I doubt Airbus really has to fear any competition - and accordingly Germany has few arguments at hand to push Airbus for a competitive offer... really weird stuff.