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More modern REDFOR planes!


Southernbear

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Now I know the reason we can't have full fidelity modules of REDFOR planes is due to Russian laws that essentially state no one can recreate currently in service aircraft in a simulated environment like DCS.

 

buuuuut, as we've seen, that doesn't say anything about Flaming Cliffs 3 (soon to be MAC) modules. This is how we have the Mig 29s, Su-27 and Su-33 in the first place!

 

So my suggestion is over the next few years add a few new FC3/MAC modules to give REDFOR not only more choice but a slightly easier time for mission makers if they wish to make a balanced PVP environment (or at least to the best of their abilities without the current boring model of F-14s vs F-14s, or worse the F-14 being only REDFOR)

 

So here are the planes I would like to see!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mig-31: I want to see the 31 for a few reasons...

 

1, because its still in service and the Mig 25 is not so there is HOPE that we could see a full fidelity Mig 25 at some point but not a Mig 31. For now I'll settle for the Mig 25RBT Mod that is coming soonTM

 

2, The R-33 missile, specifically the 1990s version, has a range of about 160km or ~85 nautical miles, this would be a good pure breed REDFOR counter/match to the F-14 with the draw back being the merge as loaded for combat the Mig 31 weighs almost as much as 2 F-4s and is G limited to only 5gs (and 3Gs supersonic and loaded) so just...don't merge...plus the silver lining is it just means more interesting team tactics where people would have to protect the Mig 31s from merging F-15s, 16s, 18s while they can deal with other BVR threats and F-14s

 

3. Mach 3 memes plus I've always loved the Mig 25/31 looks

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Mig 29K:

 

This one is an interesting one. She was first drawn up in the 1980s but because of the Su-27K (Su-33) was put into the filing cabinet till the Indians needed a carrier jet fighter in 2004...once a few were built and given to the Indians, Russia then decided to update the plane and use it to replace the Su-33 (so yes they are going from a Naval Su-27 to a Naval Mig 29)

 

I don't care if they chose the older Indian versions (hey just means more representation of countries) or the Russian 2010 ones but it would be cool to see a modern Mig that is also a fix for carrier nerds.

 

tbh I'd be happy with the Current Mig 29S we have being Copy and pasted only this time with a tail hook but thats just me...

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Mig 27(?)

 

I know the Mig 27 isn't in service and thus could come as a full module but since RAZBAM is making a Mig 23 unless they want to throw in 2 for the price of 1 like Heatblur I don't see the Mig 27 coming as a full module any time soon...buuuut hopefully with the Mig 23 coming it will be easy to have a HD module to work from to give us a Mig 27 in FC3/MAC fidelity or even full fidelity if RAZBAM or someone else wants to keep going with it.

 

Think of it like a A-10A vs A-10C situation! only this time ones a fighter and ones a CAS plane!

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I have low expectations for a DCS level MiG-25 or MiG-23, so I would also like to see that offered as Flaming Cliffs level. Also an Su-24 FC4. And Su-34 FC4. (Also options for F-16A and F/A-18A)

 

I've really come to appreciate the Flaming Cliffs "survey" level of fidelity, and think it still could have a future in DCS (or MAC).

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I have low expectations for a DCS level MiG-25 or MiG-23, so I would also like to see that offered as Flaming Cliffs level. Also an Su-24 FC4. And Su-34 FC4. (Also options for F-16A and F/A-18A)

 

I've really come to appreciate the Flaming Cliffs "survey" level of fidelity, and think it still could have a future in DCS (or MAC).

 

 

I agree with you. The most realistic expectation for more modern Russian aircraft in the future will be for the new MAC game/simulator that DCS is currently working on. I would not mind F-16A and F/A-18A but from what I have seen there would be more interest in other older aircraft.

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Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31, Mig-31....

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Yet another topic asking for the same modern or semi-modern Russian aircraft. I wholeheartedly support this desire, but people here have been creating exactly the same threads for years, yet the answers are always the same.

I personally wish that either the "eagerly awaited aircraft" to be announced this year is finally Russian, or some third party makes what is asked for here. But, to be honest, I find asking for the same thing every two or so weeks pointless, no matter how much "+1" replies we get. Demand for the modern red stuff has already been expressed strongly enough on the forums, there is nothing we can achieve through repeatedly starting "gib me MiG" threads, as sad as it is.

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Now I know the reason we can't have full fidelity modules of REDFOR planes is due to Russian laws that essentially state no one can recreate currently in service aircraft in a simulated environment like DCS.

 

buuuuut, as we've seen, that doesn't say anything about Flaming Cliffs 3 (soon to be MAC) modules. This is how we have the Mig 29s, Su-27 and Su-33 in the first place!

 

So my suggestion is over the next few years add a few new FC3/MAC modules to give REDFOR not only more choice but a slightly easier time for mission makers if they wish to make a balanced PVP environment (or at least to the best of their abilities without the current boring model of F-14s vs F-14s, or worse the F-14 being only REDFOR)

 

So here are the planes I would like to see!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mig-31: I want to see the 31 for a few reasons...

 

1, because its still in service and the Mig 25 is not so there is HOPE that we could see a full fidelity Mig 25 at some point but not a Mig 31. For now I'll settle for the Mig 25RBT Mod that is coming soonTM

 

2, The R-33 missile, specifically the 1990s version, has a range of about 160km or ~85 nautical miles, this would be a good pure breed REDFOR counter/match to the F-14 with the draw back being the merge as loaded for combat the Mig 31 weighs almost as much as 2 F-4s and is G limited to only 5gs (and 3Gs supersonic and loaded) so just...don't merge...plus the silver lining is it just means more interesting team tactics where people would have to protect the Mig 31s from merging F-15s, 16s, 18s while they can deal with other BVR threats and F-14s

 

3. Mach 3 memes plus I've always loved the Mig 25/31 looks

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mig 29K:

 

This one is an interesting one. She was first drawn up in the 1980s but because of the Su-27K (Su-33) was put into the filing cabinet till the Indians needed a carrier jet fighter in 2004...once a few were built and given to the Indians, Russia then decided to update the plane and use it to replace the Su-33 (so yes they are going from a Naval Su-27 to a Naval Mig 29)

 

I don't care if they chose the older Indian versions (hey just means more representation of countries) or the Russian 2010 ones but it would be cool to see a modern Mig that is also a fix for carrier nerds.

 

tbh I'd be happy with the Current Mig 29S we have being Copy and pasted only this time with a tail hook but thats just me...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mig 27(?)

 

I know the Mig 27 isn't in service and thus could come as a full module but since RAZBAM is making a Mig 23 unless they want to throw in 2 for the price of 1 like Heatblur I don't see the Mig 27 coming as a full module any time soon...buuuut hopefully with the Mig 23 coming it will be easy to have a HD module to work from to give us a Mig 27 in FC3/MAC fidelity or even full fidelity if RAZBAM or someone else wants to keep going with it.

 

Think of it like a A-10A vs A-10C situation! only this time ones a fighter and ones a CAS plane!

 

Yak 141 program was purchased by Lockheed-martin.So that could be an option as well.

 

Mig-31 is too modern .

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Would welcome the Su-27SM, the MiG-29M and the MiG-29K as well as the J-10A, so long as we get other contemporary assets (such as ground vehicles, air defences, RADARs and naval assets to go with them).

 

However, personally I think they're unlikely at the moment.


Edited by Northstar98

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Yak 141 program was purchased by Lockheed-martin.So that could be an option as well.

 

Mig-31 is too modern .

 

I'd put a big asterisk behind that. I've not read anywhere that they purchased the program in its entirety. They may have just purchased the nozzle transition technology and said it's good.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Yet another topic asking for the same modern or semi-modern Russian aircraft. I wholeheartedly support this desire, but people here have been creating exactly the same threads for years, yet the answers are always the same.

I personally wish that either the "eagerly awaited aircraft" to be announced this year is finally Russian, or some third party makes what is asked for here. But, to be honest, I find asking for the same thing every two or so weeks pointless, no matter how much "+1" replies we get. Demand for the modern red stuff has already been expressed strongly enough on the forums, there is nothing we can achieve through repeatedly starting "gib me MiG" threads, as sad as it is.

 

Can I get an amen, brotha?!

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Yet another topic asking for the same modern or semi-modern Russian aircraft. I wholeheartedly support this desire, but people here have been creating exactly the same threads for years, yet the answers are always the same.

I personally wish that either the "eagerly awaited aircraft" to be announced this year is finally Russian, or some third party makes what is asked for here. But, to be honest, I find asking for the same thing every two or so weeks pointless, no matter how much "+1" replies we get. Demand for the modern red stuff has already been expressed strongly enough on the forums, there is nothing we can achieve through repeatedly starting "gib me MiG" threads, as sad as it is.

 

 

AMEN! I am sure ED and all the 3rd parties are well aware of the big interest for Russian aircraft by now. So I am sure the 3rd parties would jump at the opportunity if it would actually became feasible.


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Fully agreed. Hell, we're fast running out of US planes from the 1980's onwards to add to the game. Thankfully we at least have the JF-17 on the other side (kinda). I suppose we can count the F-14 as a red plane too, depending on the time period.

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Fully agreed. Hell, we're fast running out of US planes from the 1980's onwards to add to the game. Thankfully we at least have the JF-17 on the other side (kinda). I suppose we can count the F-14 as a red plane too, depending on the time period.

 

 

Once the F-14A is released, sure. Right now, the F-14B is a stand-in, since the "B" was never exported and only used by the USN. Even the JF-17 isn't truly REDFOR (as you note with your 'kinda' remark). I primarily fly BLUFOR myself, but I'd love to see some slightly more modern high-fidelity REDFOR aircraft myself, even if it was an early Su-27 (e.g., the S or P, maybe) or the MiG-29.

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Yak 141 program was purchased by Lockheed-martin.So that could be an option as well.

 

Mig-31 is too modern .

 

I mean, tech wise the Mig 31 is about the same as the Tomcat...if not worse. For example when a russian pilot defected to Japan in a Mig 25P in 1976 the US was able to examine it. Airframe wise the Mig 25 and Mig 31 don't differ much and the 25 was found to be G-limited to only 2.2gs fully fueled and 4.5gs Max...

 

The Russians themselves say the Mig 31 is limited to 3Gs supersonic, fully loaded and 4.5gs+ subsonic, unlike the tomcat she can not dogfight.

 

the R-33 missile in the 80s only had a range of around 60nmi but thats still a hell of a lot better then the R-27ERs and R-77s we currently have (which your lucky to get a kill with outside of 30 nmi against AI just due to their range).

 

even the R-33S only went to 86nmi

 

The plane would give REDFOR an interesting answer to the F-14 without just putting another F-14 on that side which really only makes any sense if your on Persian Gulf.

 

I suppose the biggest issue of why the Mig 31 couldn't come as a FC3/MAC plane would be its a 2 seater with the guy in the back controlling the radar like the F-14...this I feel might be a little too complex to dedicate to a FC3 module even if there was a basic AI in the back but we can always hope.

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When it comet to "worse" MiG-31 is a pure interceptor, not a dogfighter at all. And low G limit wasn't really a problem in samurra air battle, though of course it's better to have a more G-capable plane when dogfighting.

 

The biggest issue in the MiG-31 isn't tha it's a 2-seater, but MiGs' PESA radar which is a complerely new tech level for dcs and it's kind of OP for the game because of the scan time. MiG won't need awacs to find any target fast

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Fully agreed. Hell, we're fast running out of US planes from the 1980's onwards to add to the game. Thankfully we at least have the JF-17 on the other side (kinda). I suppose we can count the F-14 as a red plane too, depending on the time period.

 

You lack vision...

 

80s onward...

 

A-6, A-7, F-4 (Navy Air Force Marines All had different versions with different missions), EA-6B, FB-111, EF-111, F-16A/B early blocks, F-15A/B, F-117A, UH-1N, AH-1W/Z, AH-64A,D, UH-60 (Dozens of versions), CH-46, CH-47, CH-53 (Dozens of versions), C-130s, B-1B, B-52D,G,H...

 

And that's the list I came up with waiting for coffee to brew....I know I missed some.

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