Vkb gunfighter or vpc mongoos t-50cm base

Hello,

I have a complete fly sim pit for years now

But i want to upgrade my warthog stick to a better one... and use the warthog stick for the future f16 whitout extencion..on my right side...

For the center stick and base, upgrade to a better one i think to get vkb or vipril...

What do you think for the base of those ?

I realy like to know the difference of the base quallity

Greets

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-J510FN met Tapatalk

I've you're going to mount your future/new stick in the center and use extensions, IMO get the T50 or the new T50 coming out shortly. While you CAN use extensions with the Warbrd, it wasn't designed for it, and the throw length of the stick can be compromised a bit when you add extensions, while the T50 was designed specifically FOR extension use. I have both, and will tell you from my experience the T50 works much better/easier with extensions than the Warbrd does. IF you were going to use this new stick as a side stick controller, I'd say Warbrd all the way, a Warbrd with a TM Warthog or Cougar stick is fantastic, and probably my favorite hotas setup for jets right now. However since you want it center mounted, go with the current or future T50 and buy the extensions that you want.

I have some VKB Gunfighters right now, but I haven't used extensions with them, so I can't comment on how they work, but there are some YT videos I'll find and edit in the links later about this. I will say that availability wise it's difficult to get any of these sticks, but I've found that getting a Virpil unit is typically faster and simpler than a VKB one in terms of being in stock.

I've you're going to mount your future/new stick in the center and use extensions, IMO get the T50 or the new T50 coming out shortly. While you CAN use extensions with the Warbrd, it wasn't designed for it, and the throw length of the stick can be compromised a bit when you add extensions, while the T50 was designed specifically FOR extension use. I have both, and will tell you from my experience the T50 works much better/easier with extensions than the Warbrd does. IF you were going to use this new stick as a side stick controller, I'd say Warbrd all the way, a Warbrd with a TM Warthog or Cougar stick is fantastic, and probably my favorite hotas setup for jets right now. However since you want it center mounted, go with the current or future T50 and buy the extensions that you want.

 

 

I have some VKB Gunfighters right now, but I haven't used extensions with them, so I can't comment on how they work, but there are some YT videos I'll find and edit in the links later about this. I will say that availability wise it's difficult to get any of these sticks, but I've found that getting a Virpil unit is typically faster and simpler than a VKB one in terms of being in stock.

The new stick is gonna be the center stick... the old is gonne be the side stick.. i have every plane in dcs so only f16 is side stick so i want the best matirial for center.

At the moment t-50cm that is the 1 i like the most,

Thanks for your comment

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-J510FN met Tapatalk

I've you're going to mount your future/new stick in the center and use extensions, IMO get the T50 or the new T50 coming out shortly. While you CAN use extensions with the Warbrd, it wasn't designed for it, and the throw length of the stick can be compromised a bit when you add extensions, while the T50 was designed specifically FOR extension use. I have both, and will tell you from my experience the T50 works much better/easier with extensions than the Warbrd does. IF you were going to use this new stick as a side stick controller, I'd say Warbrd all the way, a Warbrd with a TM Warthog or Cougar stick is fantastic, and probably my favorite hotas setup for jets right now. However since you want it center mounted, go with the current or future T50 and buy the extensions that you want.

 

 

I have some VKB Gunfighters right now, but I haven't used extensions with them, so I can't comment on how they work, but there are some YT videos I'll find and edit in the links later about this. I will say that availability wise it's difficult to get any of these sticks, but I've found that getting a Virpil unit is typically faster and simpler than a VKB one in terms of being in stock.

Greets

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-J510FN met Tapatalk

Can you tell me the difference from the base t-50cm vs the warthog? I know it will last more than the warthog but the feeling? Do you think its worth monney?

 

Greets

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-J510FN met Tapatalk

One was built by simulator pilots for simulator pilots and doesn't compromise their priorities whereas the other is a mass produced item that has the priority of making it cheap and yet still is able to function if only adequately. Guess which is which?

One was built by simulator pilots for simulator pilots and doesn't compromise their priorities...

Both VKB and Virpil are very good high quality sticks, especially when center mounted with extension. I have both and have used both. The original Virpil base was a little tricky as the cams were extremely difficult to replace, at least were for me. They apparently have rectified that now with their new version, which I may get at some point in the future also.

As others mentioned, availability from Virpil is better than VKB. VKB tend to just run in batches maybe a couple of times a year and they sell out fairly quickly.

Virpil also offers the advantage of having a desk mount that is reasonably priced and very sturdy. Plus they also offer a throttle, which is on it's second revision already.

I have the VKB Gunfighter MK2 Pro, its a top quality product. I also have the Virpil T-50 throttle, its is also very good. I do not have a Virpil stick. However I do prefer the quality of my VKB product. Nothing in the VKB gives a impression of a lesser product. I also prefer the software for the VKB. Both have software that is not very intuitive.

But now i look at the site and thr grip i sold out to :)

You got somme info when the new base and grip is gonne be ready for ordering?

Greets

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T535 met Tapatalk

Wel i think that i am gonna buy me a full set from vipril, because looks like ordering is way better than vkb...

But now i look at the site and thr grip i sold out to :)

 

You got somme info when the new base and grip is gonne be ready for ordering?

 

Greets

 

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T535 met Tapatalk

This is soo dificult to deside :S

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T535 met Tapatalk

Nice, unfortunately a little bit short topis so far. So let's try to move on a little :D

I am still digging a little bit of information, still have not made any final decision (and who knows if I ever will ...) but:

I went through few forums, threads, video reviews, some more up-to-date some slightly outdated. Like:

to name just a few.

Thus once againt VKB vs Virpil?

Aside from the restocking the shops (if I want that product, as it is not cheap, I would wait even if it is unpleasant a lot) which one and when?

Built quality: Seems to be (nearly) zero issue for both within some limits. Looks to me that both companies make their products well enough that it is not something to be a deal breaker

Variety: Of course, Virpil wins like professional heavyweight boxer compared to amateur. 2 bases, larger set of grips, mounts and throttle, rudder pedals, more extension choice. VKB lacks throttle and some accessories. Although VKB seems to be about lessen the gap, they have not so far and it still going to be there.

- Virpil offers you also stand-alone base, VKB not.

Customization: Virpil si TM compatible as is, thus you can use TM grips or make/solder your own, if you have another grip and you are able to assemble the electronic part. As for VBK you need not that cheap adapter.

I do not know whether VKB comes with whole set of cams and springs or only when you buy extension (and they have separate shops for regions that might not be equal in terms).

- VKB has one extension Virpil have 3 different ones that are stackable

- To slightly increase confusion, there is debate about Virpil's WaBRD base and extensions - people talk about chances to damage internals and maybe a way too big movement of the grip with them, Virpil's webpage clearly states that possible damage to the grip by hitting table or tipping over due to that movement range is the only risk while the base HAS NO ISSUE with extensions (well, what with all available spring combinations?).

Software: VKB seems to be clear winner even by people who prefer hardware by Virpil

Desktop vs. mount/floor setup: Strange but according to the users even WarBRD base by Virpil is not that suitable for the desktop use due to the height of the grip. But they love it as a side grip on the mount.

- VKB's one seems to be nice desktop and "floor" controller but nothing in between unless you modify the extension. The 2nd base by Virpil seems to work in all configuration though it is clearly expected to be used with the extensions.

Now the last gripe: PRICE!

(Note: I took some liberties in values, I am not trying to be exact to 1 € or less)

- And this is the moment when my confusion reach its peak. I have checked both store for Europe.

- "Cheaper" WarBRD base with the top grip is close to the price of the VKB controller (some 10% difference).

- But setup with Mongoos base is some 25% (~100 €) more expensive than VKB set. I can buy rather expensive VKB extension and their controller roughly for price of the Virpil's "premium" controller only. And I look at those 2 bases as at the premium products. Moreover Mongoos base alone costs as much as WarBRD base with top grip (OK, there is 10% reduction when you buy whole controller).

Is really Virpil so great that their set with "budget" base is nearly as expensive as premium solution from the other company?

As a potential customer: Why to buy WarBRD+grip when for little more I can have premium VKB set while Virpil's one is way more expensive?

My conclusion so far:

1. If you want just controller, buy whatever suits you more, what you like and what fits your budget. Anyway to me VKB due to the price seems to be better bargain.

2. For upgrade of the TM set or plug new F/A-18 grip to something, there is no clear winner. For WarBRD you will need stronger springs but it seems to be better desktop configuration than their own grip, for VKB you need to buy adapter and you have to buy the whole controller. Maybe here Mongoos base has its edge.

3. You want full set (joy+throttle+pedals) - for year (at least?): Virpil, unless you want to deal with 2 different systems/software

4. You enjoy to make your own devices - Virpil seems to be more "open source"

Thus this is my review so far. So far no personal experience with the devices. Sorry for making it so long. If someone has more information, can add user experience, make valid comment about pricing - I would love to read it.

I have. T50, warBRD and gunfighter mk ii w/ mcg right here, all are good bits of kit, but they are suitable to different purposes. FWIW I don’t have the new cm2, and have heard good things.

WarBRD vs gunfighter - this isn’t a competition in quality or feel. Gunfighter blows it away. WarBRD is very good for non extended desktop solutions however. It’s angular deflection is much, much higher than either of the others. If doesn’t take extensions well. If you intend to use an extension, this is the last one I would recommend (I’d even recommend a WH over WarBRD)

The warBDD is fantastic as a WH upgrade for deskmount/desktop applications (no extension).

For extended center mounts is much prefer the VKB. Overall build quality is better, objectively speaking just the way things are construction,.little things like PCB attachment, solder quality, materials like plating process for cams, the range of tuning options. Again, I haven’t tried the cm2, I have heards Virgil has improved it.

I am hyper anal about stick feel. I fly a center stick IRL daily, and I really dislike the artificial feel of springs. I want progressive deflection forces (ideally this would vary with speed/G, but neither can do this), a discernible but not hard center, a stick that barely self centers roll axis (certainly that doesn’t oscillate back and forth if let go), with stronger centering force on pitch to wherever it’s trimmed to. VKB can do most of this, and has the added benefit of a curved extension, making it much more suitable for center/floor mount without requiring seat cutout.

Software is another consideration where VKB clearly wins. For example, it is no problem to configure the analogue stick on the mcg grip to work both as a mini stick (that is much more precise than delta sim upgraded WH), but also to trigger a virtual button press when pushed 50% (or whatever you choose) in any direction. So for some modules it’s a slew, others it is TMS (a-19), with a no changes required. Brake level is the same way. It’s an analogue axis on mcg pro, AOA it’s wheel brakes on ka-50, or, if pulled 75%, AP disconnect/oride in f18.

Again, I haven’t tried the Cm2, so I will defer to others. But if you want floor mount extension having tried/owning almost all options discussed here the VKB is superior by a wide margin in my opinion. My only caution would be that as you get into higher level gear, VKB even more so, realize it’s not a thrustmaster plug and play device. You need to be somewhat comfortable taking things apart, tinkering, etc

I have a VKB GF MCG Pro with an extension I also have all Virpil bases.

Tell me how I can ameliorate my VKB GF MCG Pro? it is a little bit cause me problem when I want to refuel with F14 I installed 1x50+1x40 per axes while in DCS I 've set courbs, could I set courbs for axes directly in the software of VKB?

so could you please tell me about How many springs you put per axes and about your configuration?

Sorry didn't see this. So I have tinkered to no end, and am relatively happy with where I have things. Its biased toward jets but soft enough for helos. The one thing I don't particularly like, which is common among all gimbals unless you dial in more damping, is that if I let go the stick it will wobble back and forth. That's a very unrealistic behavior but in practice its not an issue as I don't let go the stick very often.

Like I said I fly a center stick almost daily in RL so I am OCD about this topic. It's a pretty heavy throw that requires fast/delibate inputs, so I like my VKB to be as close as possible. I almost worry that I will break my gunfighter at times, but thus far its held up. I have the long curved extension, 10 cam (no center), with, iirc, 50+40 springs on pitch and 50+20 roll, with just a smidge of damping (basically just where it engages). At one point I had the 30 cams on pitch but didn't like it. I also tried to dampen out the oscillation but I don't like the tradeoff in feel. One thing that did help was that I polished the cam surfaces with an very fine polish/high RPM and applied a silicone lubricant. It was fine as it there was just a little rough spot from the chrome plating process I could feel.

fwiw, getting your cams/springs the way you like is important, but the one thing I see people mess up in their setups is position of the grip. I think it's more important than VKB vs. Virpil decision honestly, as both are high quality. Most people have their grips up way too high, even in some sig rigs. If you can set it up where you are not supporting your arm out in front of your body with your shoulder so that you are able to rest your forearm on your thigh for formation/refuel or long cruise, it will improve your flying. If you have to modify your grip slightly to drop your elbow that's fine. Full deflection should have your upper arm about parallel with your torso. We don't push much in fighters so its less important, but you shouldn't have to reach. Besides preventing fatigue it provides more precise control while formation flying/refueling, or even just holding bank. Your leg stabilizes your arm, and in turn your hand. My stick is a little different and I can lower my hand position on the grip and just use my fingertips for precise inputs, with my arm stabilized by my leg. It’s analogous to being precise with a long pole vs your fingers with you palm supported on a table. A lot of pilots will touch side of cockpit with a finger or two on throttle hand, its sort of like a reference point for how much you're moving the control. Your leg is the same for stick.

I am in the process still of building my rig but I picked up a poly race seat and used a jig saw to make a cutout for stick. Local tailor who does my suits said she could modify the vinyl and put a velco fabric cover like in the linked pic for $50. Note the pic there's a bit of an optical illusion re stick height because the weight of ailerons has it full forward pic: https://imgur.com/SxMGeS2

Yes, you can set curbs or adjustments to axes directly in the VKBDevCfg software. I am at the opposite side of the spectrum with very light custom springs (lighter than #10s) on both axes so that my stick is about equivalent to a CH Fighterstick. You can put up to two (2) #50 springs on each cam though. If you would like to ask more detailed questions, I suggest you join the VKB Support Forum and post it here:

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=25

 

Hope this helps!

Thanks for your tips, how can I do curbs on VKB software? if you decide to explain please do it clearly