New Mig29 FM

I've been reading all the posts here, but how does it feel now, when dogfighting against other aircraft ?

 

Does the PFM manage to get the MiG at the enemy's 6 o-clock easier ?

 

Does it turn better ?

 

Does it loose speed as fast as before when turning ?

 

Can somebody share some light on this ?

That´s because you have run into "maximal" stop(military power) which is around 100% RPM. In the real plane you need to actuate two levers to continue moving the throttle, the first is minimum afterburner and the second is full afterburner.

will we get ab detent gate options like in fa-18?

I'd like to say some words about this plane.

 

This is very different plane from all palnes you could fly in DCS.

 

Some distinctive features and disadvantages:

 

great acceleration ability - up to 330+ m/s excessive power;

fuel gauge will be your worst nightmare, so manage your energy to use less AB.

 

Trim behaviour. Very unusual stick movement. At low altitude you need to pull the stick from 0.3 M to transsonic region, then very strong nose-up moment must be counteracted with absolutely crazy forward pressure. So, even low level flight will be a challenge.

 

12 km acceleration gives more fun from 1.5 M to 2.4M.

 

No FBW and some hacks instead:

IAS and altitude dependant gear ratio from the stick to stabilator;

AoA dependant additions to the stabilator pitch to add artificial stability at the certain range of AoA.

 

Very pronouced pitch reaction to thrust changes.

 

Lateral controllability comes almost to zero at high AoA and very much reduced at high IAS.

Lower AoA before any more or less fast roll, otherwise you are in trouble. Any low level maneuover can be fatal at high AoA because you can not get right bank and level the plane.

 

Ground effect requires almost full back stick travel to keep landing AoA.

 

Very interesting and one of the hardest plane to model.

 

The FM looks awesome! and now we have to trim like the russian videos on youtube, they are trimming all time! :D

I'd like to say some words about this plane.

 

This is very different plane from all palnes you could fly in DCS.

 

Some distinctive features and disadvantages:

 

great acceleration ability - up to 330+ m/s excessive power;

fuel gauge will be your worst nightmare, so manage your energy to use less AB.

 

Trim behaviour. Very unusual stick movement. At low altitude you need to pull the stick from 0.3 M to transsonic region, then very strong nose-up moment must be counteracted with absolutely crazy forward pressure. So, even low level flight will be a challenge.

 

12 km acceleration gives more fun from 1.5 M to 2.4M.

 

No FBW and some hacks instead:

IAS and altitude dependant gear ratio from the stick to stabilator;

AoA dependant additions to the stabilator pitch to add artificial stability at the certain range of AoA.

 

Very pronouced pitch reaction to thrust changes.

 

Lateral controllability comes almost to zero at high AoA and very much reduced at high IAS.

Lower AoA before any more or less fast roll, otherwise you are in trouble. Any low level maneuover can be fatal at high AoA because you can not get right bank and level the plane.

 

Ground effect requires almost full back stick travel to keep landing AoA.

 

Very interesting and one of the hardest plane to model.

 

Thanks for the info!...wonder if you could give us some more about the pitch response in particular, it would be very helpful.

 

Thanks again!

I can request if you think it would be helpful.

i personally think it is a good solution. many people have requested f*lcon style detent before, but the fa-18 solution is original to dcs and is advantaged in offering a tactile response in the buttonpush (which is the important part).

this was requested before for the f-5, and i recall cofcorpse responded positively to it, and it would be nice to see it developed into a dcs standard.

Edited October 10, 2018 by probad

I've been reading all the posts here, but how does it feel now, when dogfighting against other aircraft ?

 

Does the PFM manage to get the MiG at the enemy's 6 o-clock easier ?

 

Does it turn better ?

 

Does it loose speed as fast as before when turning ?

In SP yes, you can easily beat (guns only) any fighters (excellent AI with half fuel) in DCS. I have not had a chance to do it online thou. The speed is awesome and accelerate quite well, I could do 9G barrel roll to beat single Amraam. The only problem is its short leg and rather weak radar detection compared to Flanker and no DL, watch your fuel unless you plann to land on dirt

 

Thank you ED

I love the new FM. I also love the new autopilot modes. I'm going to be flying this one for a while.

This was a really good move by ED, bringing some life back into the Redfor! If the SME’s think it’s accurate, then for me it has to be. Funny seeing some people comment of what they think is wrong or right. Great stuff as usual, will be flying this for a while to come now!

Thanks for the details Yo-Yo. I think that answered most of my questions (not issues, just questions) about some of the aircraft's interesting flight dynamics. You've definitely modeled some of those effects well as I've spent a good portion of the day checking her out, and I experienced most of them.

 

Glad to have a more realistic portrayal of the aircraft, both the exceedingly good performance, and the surprises the aircraft has.

Thanks yoyo for the summary.

 

Check or even reset your controls perhaps, I just jumped in, and I know my MiG controls are fresh, afterburner kicks in at about 70-75% throttle for me.

 

That's way earlier than other dcs planes and not where joysticks sold on the market have their physical detents. And no joystick on the market has the push buttons in the right place to use those Hornet style buttons. Dcs really could use a better solution for that like in the other sims.

Edited October 11, 2018 by some1

Loving it. Really appreciate the FFB support, it’s better than the SU-27, not just shaking at high AOA but asymmetrical control loads more nuanced buffeting, feels amazing! Trim switch is animated while it’s not in the Sukhoi. Finally time to play it’s campaiagn:)

 

I just wish that the navigation panel could get some love in future updates, right now it doesn’t function like the SFM version. If it did function we could tell wether we were in waypoints 1-3 or 4-6.

 

That’s literally my only gripe! Until that update, if ED plans on it, I’ll just have to get damn good with landmarks, use knee board more often, I’ll pretend my airprlane has an error with the navigation panel and parts from the factory won’t be here for a while:)

Yo-Yo have the key for landing. Just pull back a bit (or the amount your curve be) your joystick, work like a charm.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3651693&postcount=22

Edited October 11, 2018 by pepin1234

The throttle feels weird, I think.

 

@50% Throttle (Thrusmaster Warthog) I am already in the afterburner stage, 10-20% to chill around 80% RPM, 30% and its already over 100% RPM

 

Completely different from any other plane.

 

I customized yesterday my Warthog throttle axes to match the AB detent. I have a 59% dry range and a 41% AB range on the virtual axes. Normally it uses to be a 25-30% range for the AB range in the sim, but the MiG-29 looks more like the actual planes that I have seen, that have quite long AB throws.

 

TBH, I don't really care as in any case I need to customize it to match the AB detent in my throttles, and once done it just works forever (unless ED changes it of course).

Edited October 11, 2018 by escaner

Did the author of the FM to Mig-29 once fly this plane? Perhaps he should consult with real pilots? I read the opinion of one of them yesterday and it was not positive. And I rather believe him more than someone who has never flown this machine. Of course, you know it's a simulator, but maybe you can do it better?

Edited October 11, 2018 by padonis

 

 

I found those cockpit videos, they may help us to find the similar curve settings for mig.

there shows wide stick movement to control the aircraft.

I'll be happy if anyone share some setting :)

Edited October 11, 2018 by archer86

Did the author of the FM to Mig-29 once fly this plane? Perhaps he should consult with real pilots? I read the opinion of one of them yesterday and it was not positive. And I rather believe him more than someone who has never flown this machine. Of course, you know it's a simulator, but maybe you can do it better?

by that logic then why arent pilots designing aircraft?

 

sorry not sorry but being able to operate an aircraft does not an aerodynamicist make. yoyo is more credible than some random pilot (there are many of them and they dont even always agree with each other)

+1...even with a huge 40% curvature for the pitch axis there is a point in the deflection of the stick at which the pitch goes crazy (pretty much the same as with a linear response)...it's almost impossible to fly it properly.

 

I try very smoothly to start pulling the stick, there is barely any response, then a little bit more, almost nothing, a bit more and suddenly bang!! crazy pitch!!...no matter the trim, it behaves always the same...dont know if this is due to some kind of system implemented in the real life stick we are missing in our PC gear or what but it just doesnt work fine in the simulation...maybe there could be an alternative way to simulate the force on the stick to counter this crazy behaviour otherwise I dont think it is possible to properly fly it.

 

 

 

 

I noticed the same thing when I first tried it, almost impossible to fly. I then tried to clear all the axis controls and re-asign them. After that it was about as stable as the Su-27. Give it a try if you haven't already done so.

In SP yes, you can easily beat (guns only) any fighters (excellent AI with half fuel) in DCS. I have not had a chance to do it online thou. The speed is awesome and accelerate quite well, I could do 9G barrel roll to beat single Amraam. The only problem is its short leg and rather weak radar detection compared to Flanker and no DL, watch your fuel unless you plann to land on dirt

 

Thank you ED

 

Thank you for the insight Oceandar.

 

After reading your post, I decided to again give it a try and install DCS World 2.5 with the MiG-29 Professional Flight Model to see for myself...

 

It really was a good surprise - now this seems like The real McCoy.

 

I've been waiting for this since 2003 or so, the early days of LOMAC.

 

At that time bought LOMAC because of the ability to use the Fulcrum's Helmet Mounted Sight, but then its flight model really was a major turn-off :

- it didn't turn fast enough like it was supposed to;

- instantaneous and sustained turn rates were below expected, etc.

 

Now the Fulcrum seems to turn as it shoud, like in the real life.

When it first appeared, this aircraft was considered by many annalists one of the most dangerous dogfighters.

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS to everyone involved in bringing the Fulcrum flight model closer to reality ! :thumbup:

Edited October 11, 2018 by Top Jockey

Has anyone landed this aircraft ? If you have , what's the trick !!

 

Mizzy

Has anyone landed this aircraft ? If you have , what's the trick !!

 

Mizzy

 

Yes, I didn't found it more difficult than landing the MiG-21 for instance.

 

I agree that with the new flight model (MUCH more realistic than the previous), the MiG-29 behavior may feel somewhat wild.

 

The "trick", is essentially:

- aproach the runway at the correct speed (roughly 280 kph if in a low weight aircraft - few missiles and low fuel);

- gently and sensitivly pull back on the stick to do corrections;

- try do descend with a low sink rate, or it will jump;

- might help, to tweak with the joystick pitch axis curve so the stick moves gently when you pull it.

 

edit:

 

By the way, people who mention that the MiG-29 flight controls / behaviour / etc. do feel a little harsh; must keep in mind that, in some aspects this jet was designed somewhat " like a Lamborghini " :

 

It was meant to be brutish, raw and exagerated - that's where its maneuverability and agility comes from... this is no F-4 Phantom. :lol:

Edited October 11, 2018 by Top Jockey

I noticed the same thing when I first tried it, almost impossible to fly. I then tried to clear all the axis controls and re-asign them. After that it was about as stable as the Su-27. Give it a try if you haven't already done so.

 

Thanks buddy, will give it a try now :thumbup:

 

 

Btw, for those interested with a warthog and an AB detent, this is the curve I found best to work with my detents mod:

 

Also love removable pylons option.

 

Where is this? I can't find it.

Has anyone landed this aircraft ? If you have , what's the trick !!

 

Mizzy

 

Came here to post the exact same thing.

 

Landing difficulty for me:

Mig21 - Hard, but if I concentrate and pray real hard I can do it

109K - Piece of Cake

Spitfire - Not too difficult, I can manage it most of the time

Mig29 (updated FM) - WHAT KIND OF CRAZY UNTAMED HELLBEAST IS THIS?

 

Someone really needs to post a landing tutorial video, I've done Nineline's landing mission like 10 times in a row, and there is no way for me to bring it down in one piece. This is officially the hardest module to land now.