GBU-12 and GBU-38

Don't know what I'm doing wrong, but can't hit the target! Did the training missions and marked targets as shown in "On the Range" videos...but always miss the targets. Any help appreciated.

TRK file is too large to send it thru here.

Thanks!

TRK file is too large to send it thru here.

A track file or a video recording would be about the only things that can get you help quickly, besides a very thorough textual explanation.

Maybe there's a bug in the latest version and your bombs miss although you did everything by the book. But chances are you're maybe doing something wrong, and in that case you really have to help us help you, or else we're gonna be fishing for the cause for days and weeks to come.

Edit:

Or else the dialog might be a little like this...

"I want to drive to the next city with my car, but I can't, it just doesn't work."

"Do you hit the gas pedal?"

"Yeah, but the car won't move!"

"Did you release the hand brake?"

"Yeah, I did everything like in the videos, but it just doesn't work."

"Italian or automatic?"

"What?"

"How does your gear work? We need to know. Is it a manual gear, like "1 2 3 4 5 R", or an automatic gear, like "P R N D 1 2"?"

"It's a normal gear. Like everyone. Why do you need to know? But it does read P and R and stuff..."

"Okay, automatic gear. And you want to go forward. Did you put the gear handle to the "D" position?"

"YES! I TOLD YOU! I did everything like in the videos, but the car still DONT MOVE!!!!"

"Okay, calm down, just wanted to check something obvious. What kind of sound does your engine make?"

"Now this IS IT! I'm tired from this crap! Just tell me how to get that city, it's not rocket science! Stop asking me those questions! I TOLD YOU I do everything by the book! NOW HOW DOES IT WORK!!!!!!"

"Okay, one last try before I'm out of here. Did you start the engine?"

[3 months later]

"Hey, OP, did you by any chance forget to start the engine before you tried to get anywhere? :music_whistling:"

[1 week later]

"Admin please delete!!!!! No longer needed!!!"

as standard when you load gpu bombs and use the laser they use the same std laser code... so that is properbly not the issue.

Try holding in INSERT key on your keyboard all the time after you release the bomb so the L is blinking.. ( check you actual armed the laser )

Then you can check if you laser actual turn on.

( there also are some automatic laser mode but lets keep it simple ).

With the tgp, make it sensor of interest ( there have to be a green box arround the screen ).

Put the TGP into point mode and maybe press TMS UP short.

it does not matter if it ins point or area mode your goal is to just test that your bomb is actual hit somewhere in the area you are pointing.

Try to press F6 after your have released the bomb and it have been falling for 5 sec..... now press INSERT and hold the key.

You should now see if the bomb start to behave different and look at the target.. if it does success.

Its been a while since i fly the a10 and used gbu, so im a bit rusty..

But I would imagine you just aim the camera at the ground and example select point mode and then drop the bomb and hold insert then the bomb do the rest.

GBU-38's (JDAM's) usually do miss by a couple of feet. There are aiming for a grid square, not a target vehicle or whatever. They're only as accurate as the grid is.

GBU-12's (Paveway's) on the other hand should always hit bar there being any serious wind. For a GBU-12 it's simply release then lase. That's all there is to it.

The best advice I can give you is to read the manual.

Thank you guys for your patience to answer my call and I understand that without showing what is going wrong it's very subjective matter. I'll try to post here a video.

For the GBU 38s .. If you're trying to set your mark while still quite a ways away, be sure your mark is ON the target and not Through and Behind the target. I try to set my mark just a hair short of the intended target and I also fire a squirt of Laser when I go TMS UP LONG. This generally will result in dropping right in the pickle barrel.

For the GBU 12s .. As others have mentioned, double check everything in the system chain from laser code (both TGP AND the bombs themselves) and whether or not you are correctly setup to Auto Lase (if desired)

Here are some photos I shot from the track file. hope helps somehow.

Thanks

I think I got the answer..I was too low, so not enough time to lase. I did again at 9.000ft and bomb the target.

I think I got the answer..I was too low, so not enough time to lase. I did again at 9.000ft and bomb the target.

Ale you lase time its just 10 sec i setup usually for 25s

I think I got the answer..I was too low, so not enough time to lase. I did again at 9.000ft and bomb the target.

Yes, that was probably the issue. LGBs are made for high altitude deployment. Even 9.000ft is rather low.

Ale you lase time its just 10 sec i setup usually for 25s

10s should be enough.

When I set the lase time for 10sec., I understand that will start to lase after 10 sec from the weapon has being released. Is this right?

When I set the lase time for 10sec., I understand that will start to lase after 10 sec from the weapon has being released. Is this right?

No, it's starting 10 sec before the (estimated) impact time.

Here are some photos I shot from the track file. hope helps somehow.

Excellent, I think it does narrow things down considerably. :thumbup:

So in your GBU-12 profile page, you have auto lase set to on with a 10 second timer and CCRP release; pretty good settings IMO.

But in the next screenshots, you're always on a manual CCIP profile ("M/GBU-12"), which has everything back at the default settings, and I'm guessing you switched back to CCRP with the MMCB, correct?

In that case, there would be no automatic lasing, because auto lase is not part of the GBU-12 default profile.

You should always select weapon profiles with the appropriate HOTAS action (DMS Right Short/Left Short with HUD as SOI, and not in GUNS master mode) or from the DSMS profile select.

If you select individual weapon stations from the DSMS, it'll to straight to manual profile and all of your previous settings won't take effect.

In any case, regardless of manual or automatic lasing, you should always double check that you get the flashing "L" indication for the laser before impact (the flashing "L" should appear on the TGP page and in the HUD). If it doesn't flash, the laser doesn't fire and the bomb will certainly miss.

Plus, as was pointed out, the GBU-12 isn't exactly suited for low altitude attacks, so more altitude won't be a bad thing, either. ;)

For the GBU 38s .. If you're trying to set your mark while still quite a ways away, be sure your mark is ON the target and not Through and Behind the target. I try to set my mark just a hair short of the intended target and I also fire a squirt of Laser when I go TMS UP LONG. This generally will result in dropping right in the pickle barrel.

Good advice! Just one tiny remark, firing the laser while designating the SPI doesn't really do anything in the long run; the SPI will be back to calculated ground intersection (rather than laser ranged slant range) as soon as the laser if switched back off, so unless you're lasing during weapons release or during markpoint creation, all you would have done was having had the SPI right on target at some meaningless point in time. :smartass:

I think you got it right Yurgon, thanks!

I my X52 Pro I've mapped pinkle button as a modifier and use it to increase the options on my HOTAS because I dont have enough buttons to work with. And maybe I'm mistaken DMS with TMS and pressing the wrong buttons.

"But in the next screenshots, you're always on a manual CCIP profile ("M/GBU-12"), which has everything back at the default settings, and I'm guessing you switched back to CCRP with the MMCB, correct?"

Yes, and I dont understand because I saved the profiled as a CCRP and when I choose the weapon the HUD shows as it was set as CCIP!! To put it in CCRP I press the "M" Key until its shows CCRP, and now I understand that the profile I saved is miss. Is that correct?

Thanks again!

Good advice! Just one tiny remark, firing the laser while designating the SPI doesn't really do anything in the long run; the SPI will be back to calculated ground intersection (rather than laser ranged slant range) as soon as the laser if switched back off, so unless you're lasing during weapons release or during markpoint creation, all you would have done was having had the SPI right on target at some meaningless point in time. :smartass:

The Laser Squirt trick came straight from Bunyap's "On The Range" series on the GBU 38.

He showed exactly what I said is true. Excessive slant range with the mark point "center mass" results in a point noticeably behind the actual target and the bombs will go long. Aim at the target's "feet" and range with the help of the laser when dropping a mark point actually works.

But as we all know, there are several ways to skin a cat. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. Actor Portrayal. Closed Course / Professional Driver. Blah, blah, blah... :thumbup:

That's what I do, the first time I saw that was from

Testing out the GBU's in one of the new DCS build's. I turn the latch on here when quickly marking points.

GBU-38's (JDAM's) usually do miss by a couple of feet. There are aiming for a grid square, not a target vehicle or whatever. They're only as accurate as the grid is.

 

GBU-12's (Paveway's) on the other hand should always hit bar there being any serious wind. For a GBU-12 it's simply release then lase. That's all there is to hit.

 

The best advice I can give you is to read the manual.

The GBU's seem fairly accurate to me....

Have you tried dropping multiple JDAM's with one pass Biga42?

JDAM's are great if you only want to overfly a target once and hit many targets, by creating mark points for each target and switching to each one when in the drop zone gives each bomb it's own target.:)

JDAM's are great if you only want to overfly a target once and hit many targets, by creating mark points for each target and switching to each one when in the drop zone gives each bomb it's own target

JDAMs are also really handy when you need to pound a SAM site and get the hell out of Dodge!! I've come to enjoy them more than GBU-12s...only wish there was a Triple ejector rack for them :(

Yes, and I dont understand because I saved the profiled as a CCRP and when I choose the weapon the HUD shows as it was set as CCIP!! To put it in CCRP I press the "M" Key until its shows CCRP, and now I understand that the profile I saved is miss. Is that correct?

One important question here: how do you select the GBU-12?

Do you open the DSMS page and activate a station (let's say station 4 or station 8, like on your screenshots)? That would be wrong. That would put you straight into manual mode.

What you should do is select a weapon profile, not a weapon station. Like I said, there are different ways to activate a weapon profile.

Again, if you can post a video or a track, we could virtually look over your shoulder and tell you pretty exactly what's going on.

In any case, if you've set your profile to CCRP, then select the weapon and it's in CCIP instead, then it means you didn't select the correct profile, and you're probably on a manual profile. I think the A-10C DSMS training mission does a decent job of explaining the ideas, maybe you should just run it again.

The Laser Squirt trick came straight from Bunyap's "On The Range" series on the GBU 38. [...]

Brilliant video, and Bunyap is of course 100% spot-on! :thumbup:

You wrote about "mark", that's true. But specifically, you wrote "... and I also fire a squirt of Laser when I go TMS UP LONG", where Bunyap specifically and correctly said "TMS RIGHT SHORT".

This might seem like such a tiny difference, but in the end it's literally hit or miss. ;)

Brilliant video, and Bunyap is of course 100% spot-on! :thumbup:

 

You wrote about "mark", that's true. But specifically, you wrote "... and I also fire a squirt of Laser when I go TMS UP LONG", where Bunyap specifically and correctly said "TMS RIGHT SHORT".

 

This might seem like such a tiny difference, but in the end it's literally hit or miss. ;)

DOH! :doh:

You are 100% correct. You add a squirt of laser when you drop the mark point via TMS RIGHT SHORT.

@Yurgon....can you please confirm or correct me on this regarding that little squirt of laser...and TMS

Case 1

I'm slewing for a target and immediately get a Point lock, I squirt 'em with laser, TMS UP LONG. The laser has done it's job and the target has been 'registered' for distance, angle, coordinates, etc... and I then roll in for a GBU kill.

Case 2

I'm slewing for a target and immediately get a Point lock, I squirt 'em with laser, TMS RIGHT SHORT. The laser has done it's job and the target has been 'registered' for distance, angle, coordinates, etc... AND this has now been STORED in the collection of Markpoints from which I can later select then roll in for a GBU kill.

Are these both true?

When you're performing a laser-range before you make a Mark Point, check the coordinates and altitude on the TGP display, sometimes it takes a second to calibrate (might just be a DCS thing).

Case 1

I'm slewing for a target and immediately get a Point lock, I squirt 'em with laser, TMS UP LONG. The laser has done it's job and the target has been 'registered' for distance, angle, coordinates, etc... and I then roll in for a GBU kill.

Wrong.

The really, really important thing to understand is that the SPI is generated continuously.

The current SPI Generator is always given in the lower left corner of the HUD, and defaults to "STPT".

TMS Up Long doesn't make this very particular spot in space the SPI. It just means "make the SOI the SPI Generator". So if you go TMS Up Long in the TGP, the TGP becomes the SPI Generator, and wherever the TGP looks, that's your SPI.

It's pretty easy to test this with "Slew all to SPI". Make TGP SPI Generator, slew it around, "Slew all to SPI" with China Hat Forward Long and check whether the TGP returns to wherever you previously hit TMS Up Long. It won't. The TGP will stay right where it points, because that *is* the SPI (as long as the TGP remains SPI Generator, obviously).

Case 2

I'm slewing for a target and immediately get a Point lock, I squirt 'em with laser, TMS RIGHT SHORT. The laser has done it's job and the target has been 'registered' for distance, angle, coordinates, etc... AND this has now been STORED in the collection of Markpoints from which I can later select then roll in for a GBU kill.

Correct.

Just make sure to select the appropriate Markpoint as your Steerpoint, and that the SPI Generator reads "STPT".

On a side note, forget about point and area tracking. It has nothing to do AT ALL with SPIs. Point track just means the TGP will be able to follow ("track") moving targets.