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BlueFlag: Persian Gulf - Official Round


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data link nothing. if there is more than 5 targets on scope you can end up in surprise merges as it's impossible to keep track of who's friendly and who's enemy.

 

 

at a glance IFF and a bar scan that works would be better than L16 at present

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data link nothing. if there is more than 5 targets on scope you can end up in surprise merges as it's impossible to keep track of who's friendly and who's enemy.

 

 

at a glance IFF and a bar scan that works would be better than L16 at present

This is more things than nothing to me

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3591798

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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And I wonder why most people voted for the Harm first instead of Link 16. Without better SA, how can you survive from Flanker DL considering weird detection of the GCI.

Because you should fly the F-15, if you want to do CAP. It's that simple. If you don't have the F-15, don't fly CAP. Go do strikes and use your AA weapons defensively, or opportunistically. I bet if you fly the Hornet, like a high tech F-5E, you will start seeing impressive results. Be low, be fast, and shoot people point blank, much like an F-5E, only with much more weapons.

 

HARM finally offers a long range SEAD capability, that is sorely needed. That is why people voted overwhelmingly for HARM.


Edited by umkhunto
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F-18 was the honey trap in BF10. A bit sad for a flagship product, honestly, I don't think it should be in Blue Flag in it's current state because it attracts hope and gives despair which isn't a good and positive thing for DCS. Also it will have detracted from many people's first fray into PvP, possibly discouraging a new generation of players to this arena and type of play. I noticed 200 or so players with less than three sorties and a death, which is a shame.

This doesn't take anything away from the Blue side who executed and destroyed Red, even if you level the Hornet deficiency and the Mistral over dependency. GG Blues!

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Ill be honest i joined the first night got abit excited to be let down by dcs crash halfway through refuelling it was like going to get it on with some fit bird to be let down half way through mating (sex) server was full at the time im finding it hard to get in MP does not matter what airframe your in anymore

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There were definitely some rough nights for the server. It's being asked a lot of, there's a lot of units and weapons and sensors on the ground and the fighting get's intense. It was settled by Sunday, but I'd say this was mostly down to it being under capacity rather than going mental full tilt.

 

Ill be honest i joined the first night got abit excited to be let down by dcs crash halfway through refuelling it was like going to get it on with some fit bird to be let down half way through mating (sex) server was full at the time im finding it hard to get in MP does not matter what airframe your in anymore

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I don't think it should be in Blue Flag in it's current state because it attracts hope and gives despair which isn't a good and positive thing for DCS. Also it will have detracted from many people's first fray into PvP, possibly discouraging a new generation of players to this arena and type of play. I noticed 200 or so players with less than three sorties and a death, which is a shame.

 

This.

 

I'm undecided on how to feel about the decision to put the Hornet (in it's current state) in such a hostile environment. It's not ready. Without IFF it can barely handle one bandit at a time because you spend more time verifying contacts than actually focusing on your situational awareness. I heard a number of friendly fires and "raygun"'s and the arguments over SRS weren't pretty. Also, the reason why Red had so many registered numbers (and yet got SMACKED) was because every casual decided to join the server just because it was on top of the list and Red had the only American aircraft. They just hopped in, died, and left. And don't forget most importantly, most of them weren't on comms. Blue however, had the most number of virtual squadrons participating and forward observers. I feel if you consider the variety of aircraft and module ownership, Red was outnumbered 3 to 1.

 

I think I got engaged by more Mirage 2000's than MiG's and Flankers. Therefore I think to help balance this fight, either add France to Red and remove it from Blue, or have M2000 on both sides. The A-10A should also be available.


Edited by Tailhook

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The Hornet in its current state has it's place in Blue Flag. It's great for fast ground attack and intercepting enemy strikers, but should not be used to go toe to toe with multiple enemy fighters in a busy airspace.

 

The problem was people not knowing how and where to use it, mostly due to lack of experience. Red had more hornet drivers than any other aircraft much of the time, and that really hurt us when we didn't need Hornets. That's not a fault of the module or including it. We have F5s, too, but nobody was using F5s to try and fight Su27s because that matchup imbalance is more obvious. It just comes down to players' lack of experience in this scenario and maybe multiplayer in general leading to trying to use the wrong tool for the job.

 

Most of the hornet drivers were relatively new to Blue Flag and don't know the normal flow of battle. The designers could have kept the hornet out of the mission, but then how many of those new players wouldn't have joined at all? I'd rather include more new players, help them learn the ropes, and greatly expand the pool of Blue Flag regulars so that we can eventually have a packed server 24/7.

 

To do that, we need to do a better job of having an experience spread across both teams. The goal is to have enough experienced players and new players on each side, so that there is more knowledge sharing and teamwork with the new and old players. All of this is something that the experienced players need to take responsibility for doing. The buddy spike team has given us a great scenario, but it's up to us to manage it's long term success as a multiplayer hub.

 

All that aside, it was a great round with incredible battles. Blue fought very well, maintained coordinated pressure, and deserves many kudos for their work. Reds put up a great fight, too. Ultimately, I think most had fun, which is the most important metric of success, and I really hope that we got many more people interested in DCS multiplayer and Blue Flag, in particular.

 

If anybody reading this is ever interested in Blue Flag and wants some help or a wingman, and you see me in game, *in best Viper voice* give me a call. I'll fly with you.


Edited by Dino Might
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how does the SA-6 work after deployment and unpacking? I was shot down...well i exploded in the air...with mi8 a few hundred meters away from a deployed KUB unit (two crates+unpacked). I cannot say if the KUB was already empty. But is it also possible that it is bugged somehow? And can it be shut down by the GCI?

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Because you should fly the F-15, if you want to do CAP. It's that simple. If you don't have the F-15, don't fly CAP. Go do strikes and use your AA weapons defensively, or opportunistically. I bet if you fly the Hornet, like a high tech F-5E, you will start seeing impressive results. Be low, be fast, and shoot people point blank, much like an F-5E, only with much more weapons.

 

HARM finally offers a long range SEAD capability, that is sorely needed. That is why people voted overwhelmingly for HARM.

 

 

you will never end up through the merge in a F/A-18 as you don't have the ability to spam countermeasures (not enough) you will die to a nose on shot with near 100% certainty.

 

 

at ground attack it's not any good. bombs aren't very accurate as the tgt designation tools available are very primitive.

 

 

nobody expects an F-5 to do well, which is why when it goes 1:3 no one is surprised. F/A-18 on the other hand is kind of expected to hold it's own, but with a series of broken systems hampering it it's not that effective.

 

 

any team that has more hornets than the other team is doomed i think, though this may change in the future as it's capabilities get more ridiculous.

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I think I know what you are trying to say, but let's put it into perspective @Dino Might.

 

Hornet A2G: In what way is it better or equal to the current Harrier status? Why would you pick a Hornet over a Harrier?

 

Hornet A2A: In what way is it better or equal to the current F-15 status? Why would you pick a Hornet over a F-15?

 

 

If either answer comes down to personal preference for anyone, then it's the basis for bad PvP matchups and poor user experience, if there is such a thing allowed in PvP, which is debateable.

 

 

Top 4 red performers A2A were flying F-15. Ground attack folks were in anything other than F-18. We don't have to use gut feeling, the figures were published and I had a good chuckle at them.

 

 

We want the Hornet to do well, we do, and one day it will be competitive, just not right now. I appreciate you say "teach the generation". What did you teach them? I maintain that having it in, has only put that generation off it, certainly in the circles I run in, the consensus is the same.

 

 

Fundamentally, as gentle as Blue Flag is, it's still a PvP environment. In any PvP environment there are always people who see it as nothing but the ultimate test of exerting best situation and mechanics against the least capable response. That means Seal Clubbing. It means Mistrals (you know it). And it means new players in Hornets (or even old ones for that matter, I had a good beating), will have an uphill struggle to get even. Honestly I got better use out of the F-5 and sticking my head out the window. Hits in AV-8B versus Mig29 or just simple switching the radar off and playing the same game.

 

 

It's been a long time since I played Blue Flag, but sure as hell I went afterwards to get my F-15 binds all sorted and de-rusted on the better performing airframes. I'm not sure that many other Hornet pilots decided to.

 

[EDIT, addition]

Here's the thing. You say

"The problem was people not knowing how and where to use it, mostly due to lack of experience."

"It's great for fast ground attack and intercepting enemy strikers"

"The problem was people not knowing how and where to use it, mostly due to lack of experience."

"The Hornet in its current state has it's place in Blue Flag."

 

 

You logged 4 flights in Hornet out of 136

 

So what you are saying with your actions is, there is a time and a place to use it, and that might be less than 3% of the time?

Then you logged to Blue side on Tuesday and the first thing you do is shoot a Hornet down in a J-11. :) So you are advocating OTHER people to use it, but not yourself? C'mon, be serious for a second Dino! No one can back up a statement that it has it's place when they never used it themselves successfully!

 

The Hornet in its current state has it's place in Blue Flag. It's great for fast ground attack and intercepting enemy strikers, but should not be used to go toe to toe with multiple enemy fighters in a busy airspace.

 

The problem was people not knowing how and where to use it, mostly due to lack of experience. Red had more hornet drivers than any other aircraft much of the time, and that really hurt us when we didn't need Hornets. That's not a fault of the module or including it. We have F5s, too, but nobody was using F5s to try and fight Su27s because that matchup imbalance is more obvious. It just comes down to players' lack of experience in this scenario and maybe multiplayer in general leading to trying to use the wrong tool for the job.

 

Most of the hornet drivers were relatively new to Blue Flag and don't know the normal flow of battle. The designers could have kept the hornet out of the mission, but then how many of those new players wouldn't have joined at all? I'd rather include more new players, help them learn the ropes, and greatly expand the pool of Blue Flag regulars so that we can eventually have a packed server 24/7.

 

To do that, we need to do a better job of having an experience spread across both teams. The goal is to have enough experienced players and new players on each side, so that there is more knowledge sharing and teamwork with the new and old players. All of this is something that the experienced players need to take responsibility for doing. The buddy spike team has given us a great scenario, but it's up to us to manage it's long term success as a multiplayer hub.

 

All that aside, it was a great round with incredible battles. Blue fought very well, maintained coordinated pressure, and deserves many kudos for their work. Reds put up a great fight, too. Ultimately, I think most had fun, which is the most important metric of success, and I really hope that we got many more people interested in DCS multiplayer and Blue Flag, in particular.

 

If anybody reading this is ever interested in Blue Flag and wants some help or a wingman, and you see me in game, *in best Viper voice* give me a call. I'll fly with you.


Edited by Pikey

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Pikey,

I flew 0 hornet flights in the official round, because there was never a time when I needed to do rapid small scope A/G in lieu of CAP or full FARP or airfield strike. Now, I agree the F15 is better for CAP, and the A10 is better for strike, but if you think I don't know what I'm talking about because I can't use the hornet successfully, then ill be happy to fly a scrimmage round with only the hornet just for your edification.

 

Hornet is better than Harrier when you need bombs on station quickly and the enemy may have an interceptor about. It's very situational in its current state, but had we not been outnumbered every time I was on, I might have used one to hit FARPs that were not fully repaired. The fact is that because of the overwhelming blue pressure, there was rarely a situation where the hornet was a preferred choice. That does NOT mean that the hornet should never be used in BF. Had the pressure been going the other way, there would have been plenty of times to use a hornet on some of the island bases and FARPs that needed bunkers and soft targets removed.

 

I think some closer reading is in order. My point is that there are people who will only fly the hornet, fine. I'd rather have them play with us than not. But we need to have more balance with the experienced players, so that it's not a bunch of BF vets dominating new players all day long. As it stood, the hornets didn't even have enough time to learn anything before being shot down, because our entire team's life expectancy was probably less than a single sortie. We had guys who had no idea about where things were or how to capture objectives, or that there was even a discord and SRS. And the handful of us experienced players on red were pretty overwhelmed just trying to stem the tide. Not a lot of opportunity to help out the new guys.

 

As for my "seal clubbing" a hornet with a J11 yesterday, I switched to Blue to help balance the server, as I normally do when I pick sides. See gadget for evidence.


Edited by Dino Might
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I find it strange, that nobody is complaining about the lack of reliable SEAD for the red team. Flying as a blue fighter it has made my job a lot easier, being able to rely on the SAM umbrella, when on the defensive.

The good old Su-25T was an important factor here!

The Hornet effect is very real of course, and it is sad, that this has not been sorted out still.

 

On the other hand it didn't feel that one sided at all, many Hornets has put up a good fight. I don't think that an amraam equipped f-18 can be taken lightly, even in it's current state. For me, it was great fun.

 

Looking forward, I am more worried about the incoming F-14 era. It will be difficult to set up an even playing field if the Tomcat will be on one side only...

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You are right, you never flew the Hornet.

So literally, you didn't think it was ever any reasonable time to use it on 136 occasions during the official round AND you assert that your have the skills to make it successful, should you have chosen.

 

 

 

It's an unassailable point of subjective view that I cannot question. But your actions speak louder than words.

 

 

Pikey,

I flew 0 hornet flights in the official round, because there was never a time when I needed to do rapid small scope A/G in lieu of CAP or full FARP or airfield strike. Now, I agree the F15 is better for CAP, and the A10 is better for strike, but if you think I don't know what I'm talking about because I can't use the hornet successfully, then ill be happy to fly a scrimmage round with only the hornet just for your edification.

 

Hornet is better than Harrier when you need bombs on station quickly and the enemy may have an interceptor about. It's very situational in its current state, but had we not been outnumbered every time I was on, I might have used one to hit FARPs that were not fully repaired. The fact is that because of the overwhelming blue pressure, there was rarely a situation where the hornet was a preferred choice. That does NOT mean that the hornet should never be used in BF. Had the pressure been going the other way, there would have been plenty of times to use a hornet on some of the island bases and FARPs that needed bunkers and soft targets removed.

 

I think some closer reading is in order. My point is that there are people who will only fly the hornet, fine. I'd rather have them play with us than not. But we need to have more balance with the experienced players, so that it's not a bunch of BF vets dominating new players all day long. As it stood, the hornets didn't even have enough time to learn anything before being shot down, because our entire team's life expectancy was probably less than a single sortie. We had guys who had no idea about where things were or how to capture objectives, or that there was even a discord and SRS. And the handful of us experienced players on red were pretty overwhelmed just trying to stem the tide. Not a lot of opportunity to help out the new guys.

 

As for my "seal clubbing" a hornet with a J11 yesterday, I switched to Blue to help balance the server, as I normally do when I pick sides. See gadget for evidence.

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SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

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I think some closer reading is in order. My point is that there are people who will only fly the hornet, fine. I'd rather have them play with us than not. But we need to have more balance with the experienced players, so that it's not a bunch of BF vets dominating new players all day long. As it stood, the hornets didn't even have enough time to learn anything before being shot down, because our entire team's life expectancy was probably less than a single sortie. We had guys who had no idea about where things were or how to capture objectives, or that there was even a discord and SRS. And the handful of us experienced players on red were pretty overwhelmed just trying to stem the tide. Not a lot of opportunity to help out the new guys.

 

As for my "seal clubbing" a hornet with a J11 yesterday, I switched to Blue to help balance the server, as I normally do when I pick sides. See gadget for evidence.

 

Its great when the new guy gets the hornet does not bother to learn it and its systems, Then jumps on such a mission like blueflag and gets hammered, I think with comms Teamspeak is also a good idea, Wasnt it before? Blueflag TS was always full, I check discord and no one is on, Some dont even reply to the "What channel you guys on" Or just create a channel for there own squad, I had one guy asking how to IFF in the su-27 and using its radar.

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You are right, you never flew the Hornet.

So literally, you didn't think it was ever any reasonable time to use it on 136 occasions during the official round AND you assert that your have the skills to make it successful, should you have chosen.

 

 

 

It's an unassailable point of subjective view that I cannot question. But your actions speak louder than words.

 

I never flew it during the official round because it was never the BEST tool for the job I needed to do at the time. I'm a try hard during official rounds. I'll do the best I absolutely can to win. That is a far cry from saying the Hornet is pointless and should have not been included in the scenario. Again, had circumstances been different, for example, if we had needed quick strike on ground targets far from home EVER as a priority when I was on, I'd have taken a Hornet.

 

The fact is, many players only joined because the hornet was part of the scenario. I would much rather have them join in than be excluded because they only want to fly the Hornet. The downside is that most of them are new to Blue Flag, and stacking of experienced, coordinated players on the other team did not help the issue.

 

You blame the Hornet as a newbie magnet for a bad matchup, whereas I blame the experienced players for not spreading their skills around for that matchup. If you removed the hornet, then what would you have had? 50% fewer players on Red and an even more one sided fight? And you'd also have missed a great opportunity to introduce new people to Blue Flag.

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Well, even if you are a hardcore gamer and PC enthusiast before you enter DCS World you will have to struggle and accept the "curve" we all go through with each new module. With more players being attracted, gladly younger ones too, w ehave to cope with that attitude. This is neither Arma3 nor Battlefield, neither Doom or such. If they never played a true flight sim things get tough and those guys are among us now, which is GOOD indeed, fresh blood. The downside is you have to accept their temper and attitude, NOW, FAST, not-wanna-read-before, did I say N O W already.

 

 

Having a new but seasoned Pilot might be easier to educate and train than a younger person in his Sturm und Drang period where everything needs to be NOW. That's when that idea & wish comes to a HALT, LoL. DCS can be a brick.

 

 

They see the FA18, think it's King of the Skies and don't see their own shortcoming at all....and fail.


Edited by BitMaster

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hornets lose regardless of skill. there is an input overhead that limits you, the sensors are currently not very good and it has a number of kinetic disadvantages ATM.

 

 

it will eventually be the best plane in the sim more than likely (at least as an all-rounder) but it has a long trek up the mountain.

 

 

i expect that probably 30% of it's repertoire will end up being banned anyway. JASSM, HARM, JSOW, are going to be real egregious when placed in the same ring as everything else in sim just IMO.

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The most important thing is - did you enjoy it? :)

 

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