Status on fixes for terrible AI ?

I'm so frustrate with DCS AI right now!

Totally fell in love with the P47 so I've spent hours attempting to build a dynamic WW2 based mission based around dynamically generated bomber escort missions.

I have the basic mission structure complete and for the most part, it works really well...

BUT, as always with these things, the one single aspect of DCS which totally ruins everything is the terrible, terrible AI!

The two main AI related problems I'm soooo fed up of atm are

1) AI wingmen that are unable to keep up and maintain formation despite the client being at such low speed rpm etc... that the aircraft is right on the edge of stability whilst climbing. This means that it becomes impossible to keep up with the bomber formation unless they are set to travel at a snails pace... and this, in turn, means that the bombers fly like crap and ram into each other for inability to hold their own large formation... something they do fine as long as they have enough speed.

(interestingly it doesn't seem to be speed that dictates this... to me it seems more related to engine output QED?)

2) The tendency of the entire Luftwaffe, (in this case), to latch onto the nearest Allied client and pursue him relentlessly and without mercy.... despite there being an abundance of big juicy B17's or A20's and 2 other escort wings.

Finally, there is always the issues of some aircraft behaving like they have anti-gravity generators on-board but, in all honesty, I haven't had a major problem with this and WW2 aircraft.

Surely the AI is an absolute core part of any combat simulation... so, basically, does anybody know the status of any upcoming fixes to these problems?

 

1) AI wingmen that are unable to keep up and maintain formation despite the client being at such low speed rpm etc... that the aircraft is right on the edge of stability whilst climbing. This means that it becomes impossible to keep up with the bomber formation unless they are set to travel at a snails pace... and this, in turn, means that the bombers fly like crap and ram into each other for inability to hold their own large formation... something they do fine as long as they have enough speed.

(interestingly it doesn't seem to be speed that dictates this... to me it seems more related to engine output QED?)

To fix this, I would accept a simple cheating for AI.

When ever the AI is to fly in formation as wingman to another same aircraft, they would consume the same amount of fuel per minute (FPM) and they would get the same speed etc.

Sure there are considerations for the weapons loadout, but it is not nice at all that you take-off with AI with identical loadout and then they turn back to base half way the route because bingo, and then they eject before getting back.

So simply make them have identical fuel consumption and power when they are to follow you. So difference is that when they join you, their fuel status is maintained but fuel consumption is matched. So you can end up situation where they have more or less fuel, but they don't consume more or less than you do.

Once the AI steers away from your formation (command it to attack something etc), then they start to consume fuel independently etc and ain't synced anymore to you.

Surely the AI is an absolute core part of any combat simulation... so, basically, does anybody know the status of any upcoming fixes to these problems?

I think that we believe that they are rewriting the whole AI from ground up. It is part of their "Combined Arms Real Time Strategy game" efforts etc.

They are silent about these things, as it is major problem to solve.

Define "terrible AI" :D

To fix this, I would accept a simple cheating for AI.

 

When ever the AI is to fly in formation as wingman to another same aircraft, they would consume the same amount of fuel per minute (FPM) and they would get the same speed etc.

 

Sure there are considerations for the weapons loadout, but it is not nice at all that you take-off with AI with identical loadout and then they turn back to base half way the route because bingo, and then they eject before getting back.

 

So simply make them have identical fuel consumption and power when they are to follow you. So difference is that when they join you, their fuel status is maintained but fuel consumption is matched. So you can end up situation where they have more or less fuel, but they don't consume more or less than you do.

 

Once the AI steers away from your formation (command it to attack something etc), then they start to consume fuel independently etc and ain't synced anymore to you.

 

 

 

 

I think that we believe that they are rewriting the whole AI from ground up. It is part of their "Combined Arms Real Time Strategy game" efforts etc.

They are silent about these things, as it is major problem to solve.

yes.. I am thinking in terms of temporary "cheats" for AI too.

It's good to know work goes on to create more substantial fixes but I'm presently feeling quite impatient as the AI has been so poor for so long and makes things that should be simple so difficult.

Define "terrible AI" :D

 

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Unable to give you that definition as right now, it would consist of only very bad words! :)

(by the way... I think I could easily end up in that situation as a client!)

From the point of view of a Single Mission player, my definition of terrible A.I. is AI

aircraft, ships, weapons or vehicles that:

1) don't go where they are told.

2) refuse to go to, or stop at, specified waypoints (e.g. trains).

3) don't obey triggers.

4) don't behave according to the skill levels ("High", "Average" etc.) offered in M.E. so that

these levels become almost meaningless.

5) that (in the case of enemy aircraft) are almost invulnerable, can climb impossibly fast, and

carry gunners and ammunition that can knock your wing off with just 2 or 3 hits before your guns are in range.

6) that, in the case of friendly aircraft, don't attack a target as directed but circle around as if

lost, then turn for base.

I agree with Fri13's above quote about good AI being fundamental to any combat sim. Why have the many complaints about AI in DCS forums over the years resulted in no real response? Whatever the reason, ED seems to have given it little real attention, and it is hard to believe that the creators of such an otherwise brilliant simulation don't have the skills to correct faults that they, themselves, spawned.

Define "terrible AI" :D

 

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I had more, but the drive they were stored on died. These are the most recent.

More cheats for the AI is like a walking stick. It's not the solution. The AI needs to be improved. One can only fix so many issues by giving cheats to AI before it starts introducing new ones (2.5.6)

There is only one medicine for this and it's bitter and takes time; time that was neglected during these past 15 years.

The AI has been borked for well over ten years, don't hold your breath for any major fixes any time soon.

Please attach a mission or track replay so we can take a look.

 

Getting the AI to do what you want can be achieved with careful use of the mission editor in most cases, but there are challenges for sure.

thanks

Please explain how I can get my not so intelligent wingman to not burn half his fuel load in the first 5mins of the mission? Calls bingo then ejects half way through a mission!!!

Usless at dropping dumb bombs.....dumb and dumber!

How do I get the AI wingy to follow me down a runway (no taxi way) for line up? When i take off, I normally have to circle the base for 10mins waiting for the idiot to taxi (at walking pace) down 4000' of runway so he can take off!!

Come on @Bignewy, this has been going on for years!

The AI do preferentially target players/clients. I have seen this often enough to be sure of it.

Give multiplayer a try with us and forget the bots.

Here's another example...

Flew a mission within Khopa's Liberation campaign last night. The UAI (Unintelligent Artificial Intelligence) decided to call out the same contact at 200 miles every fricken 5 seconds!! The only way I could relieve the incessant calls was to turn the radio volume to min.

Oh and he called bingo on finals then ejected!

Right? That spam "contact 058 for 260" every other second gets quite annoying. Or wingmen calling out a tank that's parked 120 miles away. Talking about eagle eye vision! :lol:

Absolutely right, 10 years later and it still hasnt been fixed; must be one those pretty difficult bugs to fix.

Right? That spam "contact 058 for 260" every other second gets quite annoying. Or wingmen calling out a tank that's parked 120 miles away. Talking about early eye vision! :lol:

Think about it, if your AI wingmen do it, it means every AI does it as well. NICE!

They're trying to make AI do too much. Trying to give them same constraints. Visibility, fog, light level, weather, LOS, fuel consumption... and they're actually adding errors into AI depending on skill level.

Wingmen AI needs to be simpler. At least as short term fix. Just make them accomplish given task unless they're shot down. No constraints. You have to assume there are no such stupid pilot in any airforce who will burn up fuel and eject. Or run into active radar SAM just because they're ordered to. Or refuses to engage a target because he can't see the target I can clearly see.

One of those classics that make you want to slap your wingmen, is the "cover me" command:

I often find myself on an A/A mission, with everyone in the flight having an A/A loadout, and after giving my wingmen the "cover me" command, a minute later I hear them calling out: "engaging air defences!" because they think it's a good idea to go after SAM sites or Tunguskas with their gun, completely ignoring the enemy aircraft :doh: