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Mirage 2000 vs Mig-29


jaguara5

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So how do the 2 FM's compare in DCS?

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https://hushkit.net/2019/07/20/flying-fighting-in-the-sukhoi-su-30-flanker-a-pilot-interview/

And here is an interview with a Su30 pilot.

The interesting for as part is the following

Which aircraft have you flown DACT against and which was the most challenging?

“In the Su-30 I have flown DACT with RSAF (Royal Singapore Air Force) F-16, M-2000 H /5[ FAF], MiG -29 amongst the ASFs. I think the most challenging was the M2000 in France. The carefree manoeuvrability of the Mirage its nose profile and avionics package perhaps gave it an edge over the others. The F-16 beyond the initial turn loses steam, the MiG -29 is very powerful but conventional controls maybe …. . A good Mirage guy can manoeuvre more carefree.”

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RD-33 engines make this tiny beast perform awesome. After 42 years it is on the top list:

 

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/twr.html

 

From what US pilots have written I imagine the MiG-23 is very like the old Ford Mustang I had - hellish fast in a straight line but if you try to make it turn then it will get annoyed and try to kill you :D

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From what US pilots have written I imagine the MiG-23 is very like the old Ford Mustang I had - hellish fast in a straight line but if you try to make it turn then it will get annoyed and try to kill you :D

 

Why you talk about Mig-23 in this thread?

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From what US pilots have written I imagine the MiG-23 is very like the old Ford Mustang I had - hellish fast in a straight line but if you try to make it turn then it will get annoyed and try to kill you :D

 

Depends on which specific Mig23 variant too.

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After Angola war. The SAAF was very impressed with the performance of Mig-23MLA in close combat. After Cold War ended They were in a join venture with Russians to build a Mirage F-1 with the Mig-29 engine Klimov RD-33 and Russian armament. They build one unit called Super Mirage F-1. For some reason the project was abandoned.

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Why you talk about Mig-23 in this thread?

I saw your signature pic and misread 29 as 23 :)

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PC specs:- Intel 386DX, 2mb memory, onboard graphics, 14" 640x480 monitor

Modules owned:- Bachem Natter, Cessna 150, Project Pluto, Sopwith Snipe

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After Angola war. The SAAF was very impressed with the performance of Mig-23MLA in close combat. After Cold War ended They were in a join venture with Russians to build a Mirage F-1 with the Mig-29 engine Klimov RD-33 and Russian armament. They build one unit called Super Mirage F-1. For some reason the project was abandoned.

 

That reason was the fall of the apartheid era goverment and an end to SA defense spending, and the rest of the SA defense industry that mainly only existed because of apartehid era sanctions.

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certainly among those :

 

- the RD-33 required much more frequent and larger maintenance operation

 

- the engines had a shorter life time

 

Your statement is not right. Were other reasons and were nothing to do with performance and maintenance price.

 

RD-33 is cheaper in comparison with same level engines. RD-33 have different versions. With different life spam. China and Pakistan are very pleased to use RD-33 export versions for their projects.

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Your statement is not right. Were other reasons and were nothing to do with performance and maintenance price.

 

RD-33 is cheaper in comparison with same level engines. RD-33 have different versions. With different life spam. China and Pakistan are very pleased to use RD-33 export versions for their projects.

 

At the time of Mirage F1 project not so much choice :music_whistling:

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At the time of Mirage F1 project not so much choice :music_whistling:

 

was in real combat proved the Mirage F-1 was in real disadvantage in comparison with Russian hardware of the war motioned above. Of course on the other hand was the full manufacturer service. I will go also for original manufacture spare parts for an aged F-1. The main reason was nothing about performance and cost or choice options. the main air fleet was French made and they have any other option to get the easy and less risky instead of the mayor investment of go alone in all the maintenance, because the big deal was not only engines and armaments, was everything... Also, looking the new hardware acquisition today, have nothing changed in this matter.

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was in real combat proved the Mirage F-1 was in real disadvantage in comparison with Russian hardware of the war motioned above. Of course on the other hand was the full manufacturer service. I will go also for original manufacture spare parts for an aged F-1. The main reason was nothing about performance and cost or choice options. the main air fleet was French made and they have any other option to get the easy and less risky instead of the mayor investment of go alone in all the maintenance, because the big deal was not only engines and armaments, was everything... Also, looking the new hardware acquisition today, have nothing changed in this matter.

 

What I mean is that RD-33 Mirage F1 is an old project, no RD-93 at that time.

But anyway it was way post-Angola War.

 

During Angola War, South Africa was at disadvantage because of political reasons.

If they did receive latest upgrade for their Mirage F1 CZ, like Super 530F, their life would have been easier.

 

But it seems like the strike variant, Mirage F1 AZ, performed really well.

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What I mean is that RD-33 Mirage F1 is an old project, no RD-93 at that time.

But anyway it was way post-Angola War.

 

South Africa was at disadvantage because of political reasons.

 

Not really. Was a hard job traying to show to the world they were in embargo.

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South Africa Mirage F1 C only Matra R530 missile (+ plus Fox 2 missiles).

R530 was mostly useless against fighters.

 

On the other hand, while not really long range, Super 530F was much more effective.

Iraq did score some kills with it Vs Iranian Tomcat (even if overall the balance was in favor of the Tomcat which is in a different league, no doubt about that).

 

Matra R530 (originally Mirage III missile)

Two_French_air_force_Dassault_Mirage_F1C_aircraft.jpg

 

Matra Super 530F (F like Mirage F1)

F1C_YD_39_Vol_S530_550_Vol_img202.jpg

 

But Irak also had Remora jammer pod which could deny any BVR advantage.

It was tested in France before Desert Storm against USAF and US Navy. They were unable to engage jamming Mirage F1 EQ6 and had to rework their ECCM.

So did AdA by the way :music_whistling:


Edited by jojo

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