Wish: DLSS support for DCS World

Please make this happen, no need for Ray Tracing, but this would give us near seamless views under 4k with AA off or on low. Would add new ways for map terrain, both existing and future, to really stand out when viewed from the deck while merged while jeering performance cost low.

let's hope

+1:thumbup:

Please make this happen, no need for Ray Tracing, but this would give us near seamless views under 4k with AA off or on low. Would add new ways for map terrain, both existing and future, to really stand out when viewed from the deck while merged while jeering performance cost low.

I'm not sure what you mean by giving us "near seamless views", from what I've read DLSS sounds like an improved version of anti-aliasing. It'll just make the final image look nicer, sometimes.

What you mean by new features it could add?

DLSS is basically AI driven anti aliasing. So far there is alot of hype but not so much on the "real world" performance. Its big promise is that it "could/should" be faster and look nicer than current antialaising methods. For VR it could be a big deal if it can help with the various aliasing issues there coupled with the stupid high frame rates VR needs.

Running AA in 4K is quite demanding. And yet still necessary to get a bit more smoothness. I run 2x AA in DCS at 2160p. So if DLSS was less resource demanding that would help.

DLSS in normal use is AI assisted upscaling. 4K DLSS is actually rendered in 1440p with antaliasing, then upscaled to 4K and sharpened / improved by AI.

It is usually worse looking than native antialiased 4K, but can be much quicker.

This is from Final Fantasy XV, the only game in 6 months since introduction of DLSS to come out. Notice the still aliased car roof and windshield edge.

It is not magic technology. I can imagine that some things in DCS would respond quite badly to DLSS:

- narrow objects usually flicker with DLSS (since they are rendered in lower resolution and then upscaled), this could wreak havoc with powerlines, distant trees, fences, even distant aircraft

- details in cockpit instruments could be blurred. You want all the details to be actually there, it is very apparent if anything is "guessed" by AI

And finally, I think DLSS is actually quite hard to implement, despite what the Nvidia marketing says (It just works!) - in half a year only one game managed to implement it.

So it appears it's a lot of work, for dubious outcome, and it only works with select videocards from one vendor. And I think Eagle Dynamics already commented they are not interested in implementing vendor locked features.

So I think it is fair to assume that it will not be implemented unless it becomes widely implemented industry standard.

Thanks for this picture. And I am afraid you are right, that DLSS is not a too good looking solution for flight sims. At least if it doesn't improve from this level. See the "Royal Capital" on the license plate. I think I don't want to see the coloured map of the F/A-18C with DLSS.

I think Fantasy XV use it bad. Wait for others games to judge, however is better if dcs do not close in nvidia technology, better continue with vulkan.

Let them make DCS not be a single-core program first and then, maybe we can think about such things

I'd rather have 4K TAA, DLSS looks awful.

I think Fantasy XV use it bad. Wait for others games to judge, however is better if dcs do not close in nvidia technology, better continue with vulkan.

Well the publisher pulled the plug on PC development after this update to the game, and I can imagine spending way too much time on a technology that doesn't work as advertised by Nvidia could be part of the reason why.

And I repeat, several studios have promised DLSS (and raytracing) in new games and updates at the release of Nvidia RTX technology. That was in August 2018, first cards were (sort of) available in September. Half a year later we have one game with DLSS and one game with raytracing. And for both of them there is consesnsus that implementation isn't really perfect.

Well, it's the best one up to date (and only one), so how can anyone say it's "bad use"? It's the only use... maybe it doesn't get better than this, and all the delays in publishing new games and updates could just be developers figuring out it doesn't work well enough...

Well, it's the best one up to date (and only one), so how can anyone say it's "bad use"? It's the only use... maybe it doesn't get better than this, and all the delays in publishing new games and updates could just be developers figuring out it doesn't work well enough...

Because there are other sample images showing that the DSLL is an intelligent AA that can improve the quality and contours of images or text. However at this moment it is not as important as vulkan which, if it will be integrated well, will lead to a competition with hardware amd for dcs I think.

Let them make DCS not be a single-core program first and then, maybe we can think about such things

It would be nice if they could do it, but I do not think it's possible. From what I know dcs uses one core for everything, and one for the sound.

This is from Final Fantasy XV, the only game in 6 months since introduction of DLSS to come out. Notice the still aliased car roof and windshield edge.

 

 

notice also the plants/grass and the rock behind the car.

Plants and rocks in background should actually be out of focus, so the 4K noAA and 4K TAA slightly blurry rendering is more accurate than the 4K DLSS one which is oversharpened by AI (which can't tell if blurring is intentional or not).

Such artificial filters are even more apparent in movement, not in still photo.

Falcon, DLSS is calculated by special deep learning or fuzzy processor in the RTX cards. Not by CPU.

First of all, lets explain some terms.

DLSS means Deep Learning SuperSampling

Very important is that "Deep Learning"

You have to Learn the card and drivers to supersample your game.

You have to take billions of e.g. 8k screenshots with the best antialiasing ever and the very same screenshots in FullHD resolution without antialiasing. Then you have to put them all in the deep learning machine, which will start to learn how to supersample those low res pictures without AA to look like Hi-res pictures with AA. Because this process takes some time and also system needs to learn to supersample all objects in game, it can take moths to years to learn the black box to supersample it properly. You need the big computer farm for that to make it faster..... Specially for Open World games. In "tunnel" games it is million times easier, because there is very limited amount of objects and environment. But in e.g. Caucasus you have 300 000 sq Km of countryside and thousand units.

I did not know how it worked, it's practically impossible for DCS. Btw if you could choose another aa method different from the current one, which would you like?

I did not know how it worked, it's practically impossible for DCS. Btw if you could choose another aa method different from the current one, which would you like?

TXAA is really, really good. It's light on performance, but looks better than the non-temporal post-processing filters like smaa and fxaa. It is limited to Nvidia cards though...

is it more or less blurred compared to msaa?

is it more or less blurred compared to msaa?

i don't know honestly: MSAA should not be blurred at all. Typically it's the post-processing AA (FXAA, SMAA) that's prone to blurriness, which is why these often get implemented with a pp sharpener to counter that.

That said, TXAA is less blurry than FXAA and SMAA (without resharpening), but it can add some ghosting theoretically, since it uses previous frames to process the current frame.

I have however never noticed any ghosting or temporal artifacts with TXAA (it is probably dependent on the fps also).

Falcon, DLSS is calculated by special deep learning or fuzzy processor in the RTX cards. Not by CPU.

 

First of all, lets explain some terms.

DLSS means Deep Learning SuperSampling

 

Very important is that "Deep Learning"

You have to Learn the card and drivers to supersample your game.

You have to take billions of e.g. 8k screenshots with the best antialiasing ever and the very same screenshots in FullHD resolution without antialiasing. Then you have to put them all in the deep learning machine, which will start to learn how to supersample those low res pictures without AA to look like Hi-res pictures with AA. Because this process takes some time and also system needs to learn to supersample all objects in game, it can take moths to years to learn the black box to supersample it properly. You need the big computer farm for that to make it faster..... Specially for Open World games. In "tunnel" games it is million times easier, because there is very limited amount of objects and environment. But in e.g. Caucasus you have 300 000 sq Km of countryside and thousand units.

 

you can see, how the deep learning works. It is something like natural selection based evolution theory.

What you're describing there is training a neural network. And from your description it's obvious that can't be how DLSS works because DLSS is supposed to work on a single graphics card and produce instant results. You're describing a process that takes a huge render farm, terabytes of data, and years to train.

Bearing in mind that "deep learning", "machine learning" and "AI" are all fashionable terms that every marketing and PR person want's to throw around at the moment, I'd take the Deep Learning part of it with a pinch of salt.

Haha. Just tried DLSS in Battlefield V and it’s garbage :cry:

Please make this happen, no need for Ray Tracing, but this would give us near seamless views under 4k with AA off or on low. Would add new ways for map terrain, both existing and future, to really stand out when viewed from the deck while merged while jeering performance cost low.

"no need for Ray Tracing" :doh: :thumbdown:

DLSS was only available in Direct-X 12, if add DLSS support, should add Ray tracing together.

the Ray Tracing add to the cockpit, Ocean surface reflection, Fog, Shadow all should look great,

+ it may solve the night cockpit lighting problem with X-ray anti-collision light, landing gear light, taxi light, navigation light.....

Ray tracing looks really good but it’s demanding.

DLSS is less effective than simple upscaling and looks worse.