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Old 12-06-2013, 06:55 AM   #21
lunaticfringe
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The reference you speak of is in Eagle Engaged; like any other radar missile, a notch at the opportune time defeats the pulse Doppler search algorithms and loses the lock. However, the comments in the book don't tell the full story- the problem for the F-15 is in knowing the shot has been taken, and to understand when that's available, one has to know what the rules were for the DACT setup.

The reason for this is because if the F-14 is in its track while scan mode, like the F-15, there's no "tell" at the time of launch for an opposed RWR to detect. Thus, the Eagle can only do this in the event of three things-

a. The launch is in STT (which is stated right in the F-15's 90's DACT playbook)
b. The players are on a common frequency and the launch call is heard, or
c. A TACTS/ACMI controller alerts them of the launch.

So can a notch beat it? Sure. Same as one can beat an AMRAAM. But only if the shooter let you know it's there. Otherwise, it's all down to endgame maneuver and your ECM.
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:17 AM   #22
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Well, officially I guess it's been like that. I would hardly believe that though, in fact if the Iranians let the Soviets into their Tomcats, or give them a Phoenix to tinker with, it wouldn't had been in their best interests to publicly reveal the feat.
That's from the Iranians themselves. Further, the Revolution had not fully completed when the conflict with Iraq began. So yes- let's send our best weapons platform to a nation we're not 100% in bed with yet when it's needed here at home, never mind the fact our spares availability has been cut off and we're dealing with potential embargo.

You're really going to disarm yourself even one useful airframe in the middle of a war? C'mon now.

The sale of the F-14 to Iran had as much, if not more to do with politics and money as it did with the apparent reliability of the nation, due to the expense of the program. Grumman was producing the F-14A at a loss based on contractual agreements with the United States Navy. Approval of the sale to Iran supplied a much needed influx of operating dollars at a time when the firm was close to going under, while maintaining the unit price for a number of subsequent years at the same contracted rate to the USN.

And the Phoenix was designed to hit anything airborne- it was not a "bomber-only" weapon. Part of this is based on confusion from it's replacement of the intended AAM-N-10 Eagle missile. Similar intentions, but wholly differing requirements. The need to engage cruise missiles directly was a component included in the design requirements for the AIM-54; thus, with cruise missiles being smaller than most any fighter aircraft, and with the need for maneuverability in the look-down portion of the intercept and the aforementioned dogfight mode (just over 2 mile Rmin), the performance to hit a fighter is there.

I'm not one to tout the IRIAF's claims as reliable, not by a long shot- but even giving them credit for 10% of what they state they did against Iraq with the weapon nets seven kills, all against fighters.

Last edited by lunaticfringe; 12-06-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:54 AM   #23
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small question , does a beam affect AI radar or just Humans ?
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:01 AM   #24
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Wow, just reading up on the phoenix... 100 mile max range, 80,000ft cruise at Mach 5. That's one seriously bad ass missile. And the F-14 could track 24 targets at the same time, assign 6 priority targets and launch a full load of missiles almost simultaneously.

Add a 135lb HE warhead to the mix (compared with 40lb for the AIM-120C) and it's hardly surprising that when other aircraft saw them on the RWR they used to just turn around and run away.

Last edited by howie87; 12-06-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:53 PM   #25
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In the game, that's quite erratic with the patches.


Sometimes I can just fly straight at them and gun a pack of '14 down without they even react, and do it 10 time in a row. Sometimes It takes me like 40 respawn before i avoid one missile.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:48 PM   #26
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Can someone explain to me why a RWR system would detect a missle launch from a STT lock, but wont from a TWS lock? Sorry if its kind of off-topic. I understand how the different modes work, but Im not really sure how RWR works I guess. (Waiting for F15C for my first taste of Air to Air combat)
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:54 PM   #27
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The most basic ideas:

You have a nail (radar in search mode) + M-link signal, but you don't know who it's pointed at (TWS launch)

STT + Waveform change (needed for some missiles) trips missile launch warning

STT + M-Link (he has you locked, and suddenly there's an M-link! I wonder why) trips missile launch warning.

STT from known ARH missile radar trips missile launch warning.

STT alone (because we don't know how that radar behaves) trips STT warning ... or maybe it's doesn't, that's actually configurable according to an AF's philosophy.


In short, what the game does is a guess, since we don't necessarily know what exactly happens in RL and why. In-game you will get the missile launch warning if:
1) STT + Missile is launched
2) ARH missile locks you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanjaB View Post
Can someone explain to me why a RWR system would detect a missle launch from a STT lock, but wont from a TWS lock? Sorry if its kind of off-topic. I understand how the different modes work, but Im not really sure how RWR works I guess. (Waiting for F15C for my first taste of Air to Air combat)
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:36 PM   #28
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Oldie but Goodie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kQuMvkGLsQ

Aim-54c
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee_Sting View Post
This video looks very nice... But unfortunately it is not for me. For the past few days, I have been trying to duplicate what he did in the video, but almost with no success. For the (very) few times that I succeeded, Phoenix stupidly followed chaffs, which occurs rarely... I think now I have close to 100 deaths by Phoenix.

It seems that without substantially reducing its energy by dragging it either down or in a zig-zag fashion, it is close to impossible to evade Phoenix. As someone has pointed out in this thread, it does not make sense keeping the lock on F14 at this distance. So I am free to do any maneuver, and defeating Phoenix suddenly becomes so easy...

Just to clarify, for the few successes that I mentioned above, none of them was without substantial maneuvers before and during the course. So in this sense I have never succeeded in my trying.

I suspect that, since the video was made with FC2(?), effectiveness of missiles such as Phoenix has been improved in FC3, and that may be the source of my frustration.. If possible, can some of you kind souls duplicate what happened in the youtube video, preferably in Su-27, and upload the trk file here? I would love to learn it... It seemed so easy, effortless, yet effective.

Last edited by blackbelter; 12-12-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:07 PM   #30
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Btw, I couldn't feel the usefulness of the ECM system on Su-27...
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