Afterburner kick in

Hi there,

I have been practicing landing the FA-18 on airfields. I noticed that at full Mil power ist not always sufficient to keep the aircraft level on the downwind especially when it is heavy. At closer inspection I noticed the afterburner detent on my TM Warthog may not exactly match the AB position in the virtual jet.

Or do actual FA-18 pilots use the AB in the circuit on a regular basis? I would imagine the jet to be designed to be able to land without using the AB.

Is there a way to see when the AB kicks in in the jet? Can I observe the fuel flow or the engine RPM? Or can I just check to see when flames come out of the exhaust nozzles? ;-). My guess is that in the real jet a very low AB setting may not produce any flames.

There are a few posts on how to set up the TM Warthog:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=210137

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208998

But none of the answers deals with the question at which point exactly the AB kicks in. If we know that then we can set up our controls to match that point.

Extremely rare for A/B to be required in a circuit..even a go around is generally done at mil, unless hot and/or heavy.

The drag modelling of the DCS Hornet with gear+flaps down isn't accurate (i.e. too much drag) and I believe the latest update corrects this, although I am yet to test it.

I read that and I am running the latest update.

I am aware that on a go around one would use AB.

Even before the reduced gear drag in the latest hotfix burner in the pattern was never needed unless you really get behind the jet or screw something up. The book says 39k lbs is max weight for “flared” landings. I’m not flaring on touchdown but staying under that weight keeps the jet controllable in the pattern.

As far as knowing when you’re in burner you should be able to tell by looking at the fuel flow on the IFEI. To set up the proper detent on my HOTAS I used the exterior view and adjusted the throttle curve until AB and the detent matched up.

Ideally I’d like to see what they have in BMS where you can just move your throttle(s) to your detent and tell the game that’s when you want AB to be selected.

Even before the reduced gear drag in the latest hotfix burner in the pattern was never needed unless you really get behind the jet or screw something up. The book says 39k lbs is max weight for “flared” landings. I’m not flaring on touchdown but staying under that weight keeps the jet controllable in the pattern.

 

As far as knowing when you’re in burner you should be able to tell by looking at the fuel flow on the IFEI. To set up the proper detent on my HOTAS I used the exterior view and adjusted the throttle curve until AB and the detent matched up.

 

Ideally I’d like to see what they have in BMS where you can just move your throttle(s) to your detent and tell the game that’s when you want AB to be selected.

Unless i am mistaken and if things changed since last time i'Ve checked to know, AB kicks in at 100% RPM+ on EIFI, but it might had changed a few patch ago, so when i don'T want AB i simply stay below 100 % RPM on EIFI

Fuel flow in the IFEI takes a very noticeable and predictable jump when the burners kick in.

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Most don't apply enough energy to the aircraft before starting turns, including me until I watched this video a few times.

I recommend watching from the start if you haven't.

Ideally I’d like to see what they have in BMS where you can just move your throttle(s) to your detent and tell the game that’s when you want AB to be selected.

That would solve all the AB Issues on different / worn out Throttles used by the player.

Most don't apply enough energy to the aircraft before starting turns, including me until I watched this video a few times.

 

 

I recommend watching from the start if you haven't.

I watched that video, and I am aware about energy management.

My engines show 95% RPM when at max mil power. If the AB kicks in at 100%+ I guess i am lacking 5% for power management in the Mil range. I suppose that is giving me a hard time staying level and on the correct AOA in the downwind.

I watched that video, and I am aware about energy management.

 

My engines show 95% RPM when at max mil power. If the AB kicks in at 100%+ I guess i am lacking 5% for power management in the Mil range. I suppose that is giving me a hard time staying level and on the correct AOA in the downwind.

On my side to be more precise burners kicks in at 100 RPM and fuel flow jumpbs from 76-77 to 106, pre burners it's also 100 RPM but 76-77 FF, so in other words FF below 100 not AB, above burners are on, but i never really played around with to me that much precise to be honest, specialy when landing, i'm way far from going full mil power, i simply fly the donut.

Just play around with your own throttle and see the numbers, as on my side i'm using a Rhino x-56

I din't find any values in the NATOPS. Also the fuel flow seems to vary with altitude. Anyway it would be great if we cloud link the AB detent on our throttle to the simulations AB event.

I watched that video, and I am aware about energy management.

 

My engines show 95% RPM when at max mil power. If the AB kicks in at 100%+ I guess i am lacking 5% for power management in the Mil range. I suppose that is giving me a hard time staying level and on the correct AOA in the downwind.

At what weight are you? Are you Under 33,000? I'm seesawing the throttles from 50-60% to 90% generally when "trying";) to stay in position for a case 1.

I'm seesawing the throttles from 50-60% to 90% generally when "trying";) to stay in position for a case 1.

That describes very well the technique I am using too to land on the boat and it works for me.

And weights are a big factor. Maximum unrestricted landing weight for a carrier landing is 33k lbs (with some restrictions it can be up to 34k lbs). I often come in close to the maximum weight and yeah, my throttle is at MIL during the pattern and groove a considerable amount of time when I feel the need to add some energy. I don‘t need burners though (I can tell because I have the TM Warthog AB detent installed and adjusted my throttle axis accordingly).

As soon as you try and land at a significantly lower weight you will realize how much more margin MIL thrust gives you compared to landing close to maximum landing weight. For a landing at say 28k lbs I rarely have to use MIL thrust for corrections.

I watched that video, and I am aware about energy management.

 

My engines show 95% RPM when at max mil power. If the AB kicks in at 100%+ I guess i am lacking 5% for power management in the Mil range. I suppose that is giving me a hard time staying level and on the correct AOA in the downwind.

AB doesn't always kick in past a 100% RPM. If I'm flying say at 2 or 3k feet the full mil power peaks at around 98% (if I remember correctly). At 22 or 23k it goes to 100%, perhaps slightly below that. My throttles AB detents are spot on and regardless of altitude the AB always kicks in correctly. At 36k the full mil drops to 96%.

Guys, ever thought about a look at the nozzle position? It´s the best indicator for AB operation under all conditions. RPM really is a not good indication for power output in a gas tubine engine.

thanks for your answers! I think ED should add a mil and afterburner axis range. Figuring out the AB point by trial and error doesn‘t seem the best way for me.

Or turn on the finger lift setting so you can't go into AB by mistake, and know for sure when you are in AB

;3575642']Or turn on the finger lift setting so you can't go into AB by mistake' date=' and know for sure when you are in AB[/quote']

 

That's true. But the real Hornet has two operation modes an the finger lifts are only required on the ground. In flight it is a physical detent one can push trough.

 

Also to my knowledge the available HOTAS systems for simulation only offer the push trough option.j

That's true. But the real Hornet has two operation modes an the finger lifts are only required on the ground.

Even on the ground the finger lifts are only required when either the hook or launch bar are down.

A button for "Passing through the detent & finger lift" which offer a toggle or a push to pass through is still needed because not all joystick have detents, even with my Warthog my detend is disabled because I really don't want to : remove the VR headset, take the key, reverse the detent, put back the thing together and the key away, put back the VR headset.

Everytime I just want to switch from an aircraft with AB to one without.

If the Warthog had a "push to pass" detent it would be better, but you need to lift, which make it really impractical to use with other aircrafts.

For those without AB detent (having physically it or having it enabled) a button in the sim seem necessary still, AB have a huge impact on IR missiles and quickly consume fuel, enabling it by accident can sometime really have bad consequences, like someone who though he is at MIL but have AB on at lowest setting and is busy doing something else (sensors or anything) might waste lot of fuel.

This kind of thing isn't about reproducing how the real throttle operate (you would need at least the Thrustmaster Hornet for that) but rather allowing the player to use it's own as the real one

Afterburner kick in

A button for "Passing through the detent & finger lift" which offer a toggle or a push to pass through is still needed because not all joystick have detents, even with my Warthog my detend is disabled because I really don't want to : remove the VR headset, take the key, reverse the detent, put back the thing together and the key away, put back the VR headset.

Everytime I just want to switch from an aircraft with AB to one without.

If the Warthog had a "push to pass" detent it would be better, but you need to lift, which make it really impractical to use with other aircrafts.

 

For those without AB detent (having physically it or having it enabled) a button in the sim seem necessary still, AB have a huge impact on IR missiles and quickly consume fuel, enabling it by accident can sometime really have bad consequences, like someone who though he is at MIL but have AB on at lowest setting and is busy doing something else (sensors or anything) might waste lot of fuel.

 

This kind of thing isn't about reproducing how the real throttle operate (you would need at least the Thrustmaster Hornet for that) but rather allowing the player to use it's own as the real one

There is a push-through detention mod (3d print) for the Warthog throttle, link is somewhere in the input output forum. It costs next to nothing and works great. The throttle response is also spot on with the Hornet, 99% when you hit the bump. Once you push through the afterburner comes on.

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Thanks for the information, but I already knew those existed (I already search for that a while ago).

The issue is, what if while flying an helicopter, the require power setting is just on the detent, or same for formation flying/AA refueling or for older aircraft like the F5, the exact position for maintaining the proper speed for a bombing run, those things are more than likely to happen quite often where the range where you need to operate your throttle in a non AB aircraft is exactly around the detent.

If there was a mod where we can switch the detent on/off without having to take the throttle apart, I'll have bought it.

I can easily imagine how such system would work with a 3 position switch on the detent cover that change the position of a movable detent to allow for : Lift to pass, Pass through, and no detent modes.

If only the AB detent wasn't that far from max axis it wouldn't be an issue, I can't understand why Thrustmaster thought it would be a good idea to put it so close to the middle...

Tho it only fix the issue for Warthog owners, DCS side feature are still required for all others joysticks.

I din't find any values in the NATOPS. Also the fuel flow seems to vary with altitude. Anyway it would be great if we cloud link the AB detent on our throttle to the simulations AB event.

What I did was I adjusted the Throttle curve to match the AB point when hitting the detent on the Warthog Throttles.

Shift+Enter in-game will show control inputs indicator (Red Box), with a bar on the throttle indicating AB point. Not sure if anything changed since the last updates but that's how i got over this issue.

A button for "Passing through the detent & finger lift" which offer a toggle or a push to pass through is still needed because not all joystick have detents, even with my Warthog my detend is disabled because I really don't want to : remove the VR headset, take the key, reverse the detent, put back the thing together and the key away, put back the VR headset.

Everytime I just want to switch from an aircraft with AB to one without.

If the Warthog had a "push to pass" detent it would be better, but you need to lift, which make it really impractical to use with other aircrafts.

 

For those without AB detent (having physically it or having it enabled) a button in the sim seem necessary still, AB have a huge impact on IR missiles and quickly consume fuel, enabling it by accident can sometime really have bad consequences, like someone who though he is at MIL but have AB on at lowest setting and is busy doing something else (sensors or anything) might waste lot of fuel.

 

This kind of thing isn't about reproducing how the real throttle operate (you would need at least the Thrustmaster Hornet for that) but rather allowing the player to use it's own as the real one

There is a way to shaved the detent down so its a bump you can push past on the Warthog.

I was using the AB button and have stop using it, I didn't like having to come off full throttle to then press the button and then go back to full throttle to get AB. I think I will make a detent for my CH throttle some how with some acrylic.

Can anybody post what their N2 is using default weather @ sea level (like on the carrier) at full MIL? I'd like to confirm that I'm at MIL when I'm at MIL.