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Old 06-23-2020, 09:17 AM   #191
Fri13
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Im talking about appeal. There is nothing wrong with a Yak 52 as trainer (provided you can get an english cockpit). Its just unfamiliar and appeals to no one outside a small niche. And its 40 euro with no "growth path". Add to that you can only fly it in Caucasus, which hardly anyone could locate on a world map, without spending more money, you cant fly in any place you are likely to be familiar with, and its kinda hard to see anyone looking in to getting in to flighsims going that route over xplane.
Okay, you just gave all reasons for ED to stop their business....


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Its not enough that DCS would be suitable, because I agree, it is. But it also needs to be "marketable". Go to DCS website with the mindset of a flightsim noob with no skills. Does that look the right choice for a first sim? Not to me. Then start counting what it costs to get a few planes and places to fly, and those customers are gone forever.
Go to look example MSFS and it is same thing, hundreds of dollars for planes, sceneries, extra content etc. And doesn't even look easy to setup.

DCS is actually very easy setup and to be flying with two free aircrafts.

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So I get why they want a separate product to appeal to "flight sim noobs". I just think it could be the same product, with different models, different marketing and different pricing structure. By all means give it its own name if need be, but make it fully compatible with DCSW.
Exactly. DCS: MAC should be a thing... Get people invest for a few good fighters and nice simple cockpit to operate. When skills grow, they can by individual ones.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:37 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
Okay, you just gave all reasons for ED to stop their business....
no, but I do think they should rethink their business.

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Go to look example MSFS and it is same thing, hundreds of dollars for planes, sceneries, extra content etc. And doesn't even look easy to setup.
Not sure which ms sim you are referring to. But flight simulator X wasnt free and I looked it up, it came with 18 planes (24 in the deluxe edition) and 24 thousand airports across the planet and thanks to a public SDK, tons of downloadable free content as well as commercial addons. It was widely successful. 14 years later it still isnt quite dead.

Microsoft flight was free, came with 1 free plane and 1 smal region and a DLC market place for everything else, no public SDK and thus no user generated content and it flopped. Dead as a doornail just a year later. There may be other reasons, but I bet those mattered.

FS2020 will come with the entire world, and so far 14 planes ranging from a cessna 152 to a boeing 747. And a public SDK. And it wont be only for those reasons, but I bet its not gonna flop.

DCS now uses a model that is pretty much exactly like MS flight. The FS2020 approach may not be feasible, but I think the condor / FSX business model would be, and be better suited to it. A non-free base game with a good selection of planes, additional paying addon plane modules (in condor's case, often 3d modeled by the community with the devs doing the rigging and creating the flight model) and a free landscape development toolkit that allows anyone to make sceneries. Which is a lot of work, and some sell them commercially others dont mind doing that to create their favorite flying area. We saw that with FSX. We see it with condor, a community much smaller than DCS. But the result is 100+ free landscapes covering much of the globe, some of them quick and dirty others multi year efforts by small teams and made with stunning attention to detail, and that in turns makes the sim more valuable. and it allows the entire development team (all 2 of them) to focus their time on the things the community can not make, and is happy to pay for.

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Exactly. DCS: MAC should be a thing... Get people invest for a few good fighters and nice simple cockpit to operate. When skills grow, they can by individual ones.
Only if that doesnt mean ditching MAC and switching to DCS. It should be the same sim and interoperable. Very much like FC3.

Last edited by Vertigo72; 06-23-2020 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:35 AM   #193
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I think you derailed the topic a "little bit" here.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:40 AM   #194
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I did, didnt I.

Then again, I think everything that can be said about easy AAR has been said, so we widened the scope of the discussion to making DCS more accessible [s]noob friendly.[/s]

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Old 06-23-2020, 11:52 AM   #195
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I did, didnt I.

Then again, I think everything that can be said about easy AAR has been said, so we widened the scope of the discussion to making DCS more noob friendly.
I think the better word and the whole point of this thread is not noob friendly but "more accessible". It's not only about new players and their steep learning curves, but also just as important, accessible to normal people with normal lives who work, have families, friends, who can't dedicate so much effort and time to learn, practice and keep proficiency, and money, to spend on video games' hardware.
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Old 06-26-2020, 09:27 AM   #196
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Just want to agree here, I am not that interested in AAR to practice it and in some cases, not that interested in carrier landing. I like the mission in the middle!


Get within 10 meters of the fueller and press "x" and it ports you onto the tanker until you let go, a bit like the way you attach to the catapult.


Get within 300 meters of the carrier and fairly lines up, press "x" and it lands you.
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Old 06-26-2020, 09:32 AM   #197
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Get within 300 meters of the carrier and fairly lines up, press "x" and it lands you.
At least with the tomcat you can have that. Just bind "x" to ACLS. Not sure if or when that is coming to the F18
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Old 06-26-2020, 10:16 AM   #198
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Sorry if I sound rude, but my advice is, that if someone can't do AAR or carrier landing, and is not willing to learn it:

Simply don't do AAR and don't do carrier ops. Have fun with everything else.

I get it, that lots of people don't have the free time to learn and practice, but then, why fly a 2 hour long boring mission with AAR?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people playing the game their own way, my problem is that there are 1000 more important things I'd like ED to work on instead...
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:06 AM   #199
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In some ways we do have easy air to air refueling. The elimination of the fear of death is a big one. On the other hand we don't have certain sensory inputs: our bodies do not experience our "plane" moving around and we don't have the same depth perception looking at a screen versus a 3D environment. I applaud those who can achieve a "hookup" every time. Some of us though are getting on in years and/or just don't have the necessary coordination for the required intricate moves no matter how much we practice. And there are those who just don't have the time to practice this one skill but still want more than an arcade experience. If we can't refuel in the air we lose the whole fuel management experience because the only other option is unlimited fuel. It seems to me that an option for refueling with no oscillation of plane and basket could be made available for newer or less coordinated pilots. I have noticed when I hook up to the catapult that if my plane is not perfectly aligned it magically aligns itself. No one expects me to make a U turn and try again. When learning something like skiing you are not just shoved done the expert slope the first time out. You work up to it. Of course there are about 1000 things the programmers need to work on that are as important or more important than an easier option to refueling.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:20 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by HWasp View Post
Sorry if I sound rude, but my advice is, that if someone can't do AAR or carrier landing, and is not willing to learn it:

Simply don't do AAR and don't do carrier ops. Have fun with everything else.

I get it, that lots of people don't have the free time to learn and practice, but then, why fly a 2 hour long boring mission with AAR?
Because people are interested about the 2h mission, not very specific part of it that can ruin it.

One might like idea to fly long strike mission from carrier to carrier, with two air refueling, without wanted to even risk to lose all because their weak skills in landing or air refueling in bad weather. But they have spent already so much time to learn all other phases and master them, that they are still in progress to learn those two new things.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people playing the game their own way, my problem is that there are 1000 more important things I'd like ED to work on instead...
With that attitude you never get anything done, because there is always some better things to be done.

Air refueling is major part of many long time missions or even normal ones. But not between all others.
We have all kind assisting things to begin, but we get to drop them while we learn.

One can train a lot refueling or landing, and never be so great as they are in everything else. So why not assist them in those areas where they need help for some reasons?
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