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Old 06-22-2020, 02:28 PM   #171
SharpeXB
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MAC is a good product to bring more players into DCS. Most people would start with something less hardcore and then move up.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:32 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
MAC is a good product to bring more players into DCS. Most people would start with something less hardcore and then move up.
I hope you're right

It's either that, or ED will go for profit and decides to drop the hardcore stuff all together.

But, maybe we're drifting a bit too far off topic.. sorry for that
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Old 06-22-2020, 03:05 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by stormridersp View Post
To be honest, after almost 10 years here, I would prefer instead of a new game, a new business model altogether. Instead of relying solely on pricy module sales, I'd be more than happy, perhaps even more, to pay for DCS World upgrades. 3.0 then another upgrade at 3.5, 4.0 and so on.
For those interested, that can of worms is discussed here:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=277843

Thanks for voting, if you haven't yet.
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Old 06-22-2020, 03:18 PM   #174
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Sorry for going off-topic.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:34 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
MAC is a good product to bring more players into DCS. Most people would start with something less hardcore and then move up.
I think the "less hardcore" could be handled with settings within DCS. No one wants lower fidelity cockpits or 3d models, hardly anyone wants lower fidelity flight models (especially for jets). What many dont want is spending 4 hours reading manuals and watching youtube tutorials in order to start a jet, find a target and blow something up.

I think this could be solved in DCS; simplified/faster startup procedure (we already have one button start cheat, add to that instant INS alignment, easier weapon selection menu, maybe even semi automatic catapult hookup) and make it so newbies actually can enable those things easily. Just click "im a noob, tell me what to do, but KISS". I had played DCS on and off for 2 years before I even discovered the auto start keybind.

Then have some sort of jester AI doing the radar, setting up of targets and weapons for you. You just select a maverick or amraam and have "jester" configure your plane accordingly, cycle through the targets, or even tell you where they are, something like that makes it "easy" and yet not entirely unrealistic, the newbie wont achieve anything an experienced simmer couldnt also do. That means, you dont even have to split up the community.

But I think the biggest barrier for more casual simmers is the fact you have to pay for every plane. That makes it appear very expensive compared to other sims, and means you instantly need to commit to one plane, whereas most will want to experience several. That is what made FC3 interesting to non hardcore simmers, a decent collection of planes for an affordable price. The non clickable cockpits dont really help them, if anything I find keybinds are harder to set up and memorize.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:44 PM   #176
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I think the "less hardcore" could be handled with settings within DCS.
DCS already has a “game mode”. The trouble with that is you’re paying $80 and you wouldn’t get your money’s worth in that mode. A player who wants something like that would be better off with Ace Combat or something.
ED needs a soft core product to entice new players into sims, I have a hard time imagining DCS being someone’s very first flight sim.
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:07 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
DCS already has a “game mode”.
It does? They sure do a good job hiding it then. Never even heard of it. So i doubt any prospective buyers know about it.

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The trouble with that is you’re paying $80 and you wouldn’t get your money’s worth in that mode.
yep, that is a challenge. I dont think its the game mode though, whatever it does, its gonna be the lack of choice in planes for that money. Its really simple, if you get 1 plane for 70 dollar or 8 for 50, what do you think most will do?

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A player who wants something like that would be better off with Ace Combat or something.
Nah. ace combat has nothing to do with flight sims, it just vaguely looks like one, its an arcade game.

I think the obvious target is that other more popular WW2 sim as well as even microsoft simmers. You need something that appeals to them, realistic enough to make you believe you are actually in a sim, but not requiring reading thick books just to get airborne or get any sense of achievement. I see no reason why WW2 simmers would not want to try their hand at more modern jets, or even why a non trivial amount of civilian simmers wouldnt want to fly fast jets. Even "demilitarized " ones. And once they do that, hey, I bet some will like to pull that trigger too.
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:12 PM   #178
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Good thing to learn Air to Air Refueling. You play simulator, right?
Maybe a step at a time could be allowed for a some players?

Or is it a good that by your logic the GAME mode would be deleted from DCS, as well all the labels, invulnerability, unlimited weapons, easy targeting, easy radio, all laser code adjustments etc etc?

You play the simulator, right?

This wish in the original post is not about anything that would be ruining anyones experiences that want to fly with current air refueling modeling. It is exactly like the easy radio or external views etc!

It is just to ease some people experience in one point of the missions!

They can go flying the missions that requires air refueling after take-off or middle of the mission, without going banal with fuel management, aerodynamics, weapons management etc etc.

Seriously people, IT IS NOT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND!
NO ONE IS FORCING THE EASY AAR MODE ON YOU!
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:19 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
I have a hard time imagining DCS being someone’s very first flight sim.
You would be very surprised then.....

So better start imagining more how people buy DCS as their first flight simulator....
Same way as they buy to X-plane. Or they even go to IL-2. Or they buy to Microsoft Flight.
Heck, people go for even to space simulators for first time like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizens.

Even the Kerbal Space Program is recommended by NASA for kids to learn about space missions etc. And some of KSP players are young!

This is why I like the DCS, you have exactly that Game mode that you can put a 5 year old kid flying without much challenges, they learn very quickly do lots of fancy stuff in it. Far faster to learn than you likely would ever imagine.
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:27 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by sirrah View Post
First of all, personally I have nothing against having both options, but I can imagine that some of our community members are concerned that adding more and more "easy"/"game" modes would eventually move DCS in a more arcadish direction for the masses.
If these same people you talk about, would have DCS future in their hearts, they would welcome those things gladly with open arms. Because flight simulation market is niche. And we need more players who get to it, as there are lots of those who are interested about modern combat. So much that even ED does the MAC as own completely separate product instead as "Flaming Cliffs 4.0" (that I hoped for).

I had multiple people ready to be a gift receivers for the MAC. But it ended right on the moment when ED announced that it will be standalone product and incompatible with DCS World.

ED needs at some point improve more of the GAME mode in DCS World, to add some new easier modes to it, as well like adding new easy modes to SIM mode. Just like this AAR idea, it is very seriously needed to grow the potential customer base. This is something that we need to simply accept, that there needs to be multiplayer servers for GAME mode and for SIM mode. And then we need the HARD CORE version that is 100% as much realism as possible for those who really want simulation/realism. Where you don't have any hand holding, you have heavy penalties from fooling around with aircrafts costing millions etc.

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I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when ED announced the new MAC game. I much rather saw them invest all their resources in improving and fixing DCS (but I'm probably short sighted and I do realise that ED needs to make money to be able to provide us this wonderful sim)
Have you thought about that maybe the MAC is part of the ED process to improve the whole core technology in DCS World as well? As development goes often both ways....
Like have you thought if ED is developing a new graphics, terrain and AI engines first for MAC, as they don't have any history to carry on first? And then they can start porting the existing modules to it and get DCS World finally going for that?
They have possibilities to test and try new things without touching DCS World at all!
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