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Please convince me..


EvMstein

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Hello, The F-5 is in 50% off right now, but even though, still undecided if I should get it or did I really need it or not.

 

I'm in 50/50 to threw my money into the F-5, half of me want to give it a try, but also half of me whispering inside that it could be bored to fly.

 

So.. can you guys convince me to get the F-5 please?

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It is the closest you will get to a MiG-28 :)

 

But seriously the F-5 is a lot of fun ;)

 

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It is a fighter that requires a GCI to find targets for you.

It is limited to only dog fight or intercepting bombers, or to perform dumb bombing without even radar calculated impact point.

 

It might receive a upgrade to more capable variant, there is a own thread about that.

 

I would consider even a Mig-21Bis instead F-5E if you don't own that, and you don't have problems to get a warsaw pact fighter.

 

IMHO the F-5 falls little to niche group as it is more meant to third countries that USA wanted to sell fighters but nothing that would come close to theirs. Unlike what Soviet Union did, by selling the slightly lower version based previous upgrades.

 

For its price it ain't bad at all. But maybe it is just that there ain't so much content for it.

 

I personally place it to same category as L-39ZA. Regardless that doesn't have a radar, you are as limited and as capable to fight.

 

If the F-5 would at least receive a radar upgrade so it would look correctly and be possible to visually use for finding targets more easily using the scope, I would say it has then better situation.

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Overall I judge the F5 for me on the fact that it's one of the first modules I bought back in 2016 and I bungee back to flying it more than nearly any other type I have. You have to really work at it to nail the numbers when bombing, no fancy smart weapons in sight. Using rockets and strafing great fun also. Air to air, it's very closely matched to the Mig-21bis and if you like MP then a server like the Cold War server would be the goto place to test your abilities in the F5. I would take the plunge if I were you.

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So I tend to say that DCS handles more modern aircraft better than older ones for a number of reasons. Mostly AI which is more problematic at WVR and the lack of external guidance that older aircraft need more than modern ones.

 

 

The F-5 designed as a simple WVR fighter means that it does have to deal with some of DCS's limitations (though as DCS evolves, these issues are being addressed, AI having been given some attention recently) but it's capable enough to be worth using in my opinion.

 

 

As for the plane itself, it's clearly a low cost fighter. Fun to fly and pretty agile, but it's underpowered compared to adversaries. You'll likely be the slowest aircraft in an engagement. However the simple and reliable dogfight switch makes targeting easier than in something like the MiG-21. If you can get into combat unseen (which is one of the things which is wonky with AI) the F-5 is pretty deadly. It can still fight head to head, but you need to be careful to not burn your energy because you will have a harder time getting it back compared to other fighters. Also don't let yourself get outnumbered. You only have 2 missiles, although the gun has a good amount of ammo and the gun sight makes it likely you'll hit what you're shooting at. The F-5's radar is pretty good all things considered, but it's basically an attack radar. You won't really be able to search for targets without knowing their position in advance except maybe large bombers and transports.

 

 

 

If you want to perform air to ground missions, the plane is fine if you can manage without a complex bomb sight. For such a small fighter, the bomb load is pretty large and it's fast for an attack aircraft.

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The F-5 is an aircraft I always turn to for old school fun.

 

Having only two AIM-9's means she doesn't throw a lot of punches in A2A, but the two upper-cuts are fully capable of landing a knockout blow. As has been said, you do need some assistance to get you to find your targets, as the radar is used mostly for WVR locking and ranging when in DM or DG modes. Sounds weird, I know, but after using it a few times you'll understand.

 

The real fun of the F-5 comes in old school navigation and A2G missions. Navigating to a target zone via TACAN, RB, or good ole MK1 eyeball is hella fun in my book. None of that F10 hack here. It can take a little bit of practice, but rewarding when done right.

 

She can carry bombs (as many as nine), rockets, or a combination of. And again, without fancy computer assistance, it will require you to hit your marks on the bomb/rocket run. Knowing your proper air speeds and dive angles for a given depression are a must to put bombs on target accurately, and will take practice for sure. The real fun is having to make last second calculations in your head because for whatever reason, maybe your dive is too shallow/steep, or speed too fast/slow. Doing so with precision IMO is a thrill and a bit of a rush.

 

At 50% off the F-5 is a must have in my book; and something I don't think you would regret.


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Depends on what modules you already own. If you haven't got the Harrier yet spend your money on that instead. In saying that, the F5 is easily worth the sale price. Despite having all modules, I often find myself flying and ground pounding in the F5.

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As much as I personally like the F-5 module, I can't help but feel that it gets a bit too aggressively oversold and perhaps for reasons that require more context than they often get. Don't get me wrong, it is a good module and I enjoy flying it a great deal. It is just that when you start building realistic/plausible missions, you will find that it gets VERY difficult to put in as anything more than a somewhat disposable light bomber with pretty limited range/altitude capability.

 

This might be a controversial thing to say but I think this module gets a lot of attention and aggressive recommendations because it is very quick to learn and fits well into BVR dogfight scenarios both on and offline. This is the kind of module you can pretty easily get the general gist of in a afternoon and while there are some things that require skill and practice (bombing in particular does require good flying), it doesn't have a lot to it and for a experienced DCS player who might have already learned the F-14, A-10C, F/A-18C, or other similar modules, it will be a quick learning experience to say the least. For some, that quick process will be refreshing. For others, it will be somewhat underwhelming.

 

Air to air combat is another thing that needs to be talked about a bit. The F-5 we have in DCS is very much a BVR only platform that relies entirely on its sidewinders and guns. It has a radar but like the MiG-21Bis and MiG-19, that radar is more for the gun sight than anything else. It is not really a search radar by any means and having it on before you are right on the enemy's six will be more of a liability than anything else.

 

To put this a bit more directly. If you are flying a F-5 in a environment where there are 4th gen jets flown by competent and knowledgeable players, the F-5 is going to be a fairly easy target since they will see you, lock you up, and fire a few missiles at you before you even have a chance to meaningfully engage them. If said competent and knowledgeable players are set out to take you down while flying their F-15's, F-16's, F/A-18's, MiG-29's, Su-27's, and Mirage's, there is not a whole lot that you will be able to do to stop them. You just don't have the engine power, sensors, or weapons to meaningfully defend yourself. This doesn't mean that you won't occasionally succeed. Heck, you might even get kills online but that probably has more to do with some of the common habits of players online rather than the capability of the aircraft themselves.

 

After some years of flying and learning the F-5 module, I have found that it really is best seen as a light bomber when thinking about mission scenarios. In that capacity, it can carry enough weapons to have a meaningful impact on a target while not getting into areas it can't really deal with due to lack of equipment/capability. Likewise, if you use it in a very controlled guns/IR missile only PvP or single player environment, it can do better in a air to air engagement. You will still have to deal with its lack of thrust but at least you will be on roughly equal ground in terms of weaponry.

 

If you use it like a DACT focused training aircraft, the F-5 that we have in DCS makes a lot of sense. If you try to push it into air to air roles in missions that are not HEAVILY focused on "fair" dogfights with guns/IR missiles only, you will quickly reach the limits of the aircraft and any determined player in a more capable platform will probably find you to be a fairly easy target.

 

The F-5 is a great module. It is well made and very fun to fly on its own terms. Just go into it with both eyes open and understand that it has limits that can be fun to explore but should not be dismissed.

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I would suggest the F-5 to you for many reasons others already posted above.

 

Talking about jets now:

For me the F-5 currently is one of not many "fully programmed" aircraft in DCS that really works and is "finished" according to my understanding (an my own perception of the whole "DCS thing").

Flying the MiG-28 (as a black F-5) against a trainee who wants to try out things is a lot of fun. It needs trim, yes, but this and all other features like TACAN, the radar, the RWR, ... bring you to a higher level.

The aircraft looks awesome from outside and inside. I'm a huge fan of HB aircraft (Viggen, F-14), but when it comes to training with my friends, or A2G in a battlefield which needs flexibility, I love to use the F-5 like no other.

 

Slim, fast, and powerful, and awesome look. And super cheap these days!

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F-5 Is a 1970 era aircraft so yes, It Is less capable than 4th gen fighters and it's only wvr even if It has a radar: the radar Is Just a help to calculate optimum firing range but Is not useful to track distant targets. In a-g It Is all manual. I have both f-5 and mig-21, maybe mig-21 is slightly more fun to fly but very similar in capabilities. If you design and play missions with the appropriate assets both are amazing modules. You fly manually without hud and computers. These kind of planes belong to that era in which you had amazing performance like modern fighters but no computers / GPS / datalinks and bvr capabilities: It was still the man and not the machine to make the difference. So yes, I highly suggest, but use with wisdom otherwise you'll get frustrated against f-18s and such. Play against mig-21 and older ground assets and you'll have a lot of fun.

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The biggest question is, what are you looking to get out of a module? If you're looking for something that is simple and easy to play around with then it's the right choice. It can also challenge you quite a bit and make you a better pilot.

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If you're new to DCS then I'd definitely recommend it. It's a great trainer aircraft. "Simple" controls, pretty quick startup procedure... it feels complete to me. I enjoy flying it. Works great in VR with the interactive cockpit. If you want all the whiz bang gadgets though, it doesn't have them, and it is not really powerful compared to the Viper, for instance.

 

If you're an experienced DCS person then you might think twice. Depends on what you're looking for. I agree with many of the other posts.

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The F-5's value to me is that it's a very manual, analog jet with nothing to compensate for poor airmanship or planning. I consider it a trainer, like its unarmed counterpart the T-38, for maintaining pure stick-and-rudder skills, e.g. scanning outside instead of relying on the HUD, trimming in the pitch axis, maintaining coordinated rudder. For actual combat, I don't recommend it.

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F5 will teach you to fly right, Nothing compares to the feeling of hitting your targets with a bomb pass done right. Or going low and fast on an Iron Hand mission. It's tricky to fly and you will have to rely on GCI or AWACS a lot but it teaches you to fly fast and hard and to keep your energy. I spent a lot of time in it and probably spend more time in it. F5 will receive some more content soon

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The F-5 is where I go for fun (if I'm not in an I-16 or something else with the egg beater in front). Tired of playing the piccolo and watching a computer do the work? Just need a break? Set the wheel chocks, apply ground air, and burn some holes in the sky.

 

 

This was my first module (I have them all) and still my goto if all I want to do is fly. F-86 is a close second, but the engine is almost as temperamental as an F-14A. The F5 is for flying.

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I always considered the F-5 to be a sort of "Sunday driver". When I am not in the mood to actually fly a mission and just tool around, the F-5 fits the bill nicely since it is so pleasant and responsive.

 

That being said. If I want to fly a mission and actually accomplish a task, the F-5 isn't going to be my first choice. It is a reasonably capable light bomber and can be used in that capacity in a mission but its lack of refueling capability and its lack of speed when carrying a combat load make it a difficult plane to take over something like the Viggen or the Hornet. When you build missions with a eye towards realistic transit times and the like, the F-5's short legs get VERY short indeed.

 

As a little sports car that one can fool around with in its own isolated environment (perhaps with some carefully chosen foes to shoot down), it can be a ton of fun. Anything beyond that gets tricky to say the least.

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I see the F5 as the next step up from an L-39ZA or C101CC. It has simple radar, counter measures and is faster and more agile than those other two. It would be a natural progression in training. However, many people approach DCS the opposite way, starting with the most sophisticated fighters and working backwards down the training, so to speak.

 

 

One other point, is that, if you like campaigns, there are two available for sale for the F5, which are the Air Combat Manoeuvres and Basic Flight Manoeuvres. (Note that both of those need the NTTR map too).

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Become an expert at a few airframes you love over being half-ass at all of them. Do you get satisfaction from any other aircraft that you could fly for hours? BTW, the Tomcat belongs on a stick or in a museum if you ask me...side note. Seriously, the F-5 can be a very fun jet to fly and master if you want.

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I see the F5 as the next step up from an L-39ZA or C101CC. It has simple radar, counter measures and is faster and more agile than those other two. It would be a natural progression in training. However, many people approach DCS the opposite way, starting with the most sophisticated fighters and working backwards down the training, so to speak.

 

 

One other point, is that, if you like campaigns, there are two available for sale for the F5, which are the Air Combat Manoeuvres and Basic Flight Manoeuvres. (Note that both of those need the NTTR map too).

 

 

This is a good point. From a real world standpoint, combat pilots don't really have a choice but to start with trainers like the L-39 or the T-38 in order to transition into the cockpits of more advanced front line combat aircraft like F-16's or MiG's. In DCS, it kinda goes the opposite way. Since there are no consequences for failure beyond crashing a virtual plane, it makes more sense to encourage players to get the aircraft they really love even if it is a complex combat focused aircraft.

 

With that in mind, I kinda feel like the F-5, L-39, and other trainers with some combat capability end up being more interesting as "enthusiast purchases" for those that REALLY love those specific aircraft regardless of what kind of role they can or cannot fill in more seriously structured missions. They end up being those classic cars that someone buys for the passion of that specific car and nothing else.

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seriously structured missions

 

Depends on what you mean by "seriously structured". The L-39ZA, for example, is an excellent light CAS/COIN platform and has been used as such in numerous RL conflicts. And I don't think missions and/or servers concentrating on those kind of scenarios are less "seriously structured" than any 'big war' stuff I've seen so far.

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Depends on what you mean by "seriously structured". The L-39ZA, for example, is an excellent light CAS/COIN platform and has been used as such in numerous RL conflicts. And I don't think missions and/or servers concentrating on those kind of scenarios are less "seriously structured" than any 'big war' stuff I've seen so far.

 

This is a tricky topic. I suppose it would be useful to quickly clarify that when I talk about "seriously structured" missions, I am speaking not so much about the size of the scenario but more about how much emphasis is put on constructing a semi-realistic/plausible scenario. In larger (popular) public servers, the scenarios tend to be constructed in fairly inclusive manner in regards to aircraft types, player skill levels, and even drop-in, drop-out capability. To put it another way, those who wish to use the L-39ZA will find scenarios and targets that allow it to be successful.

 

This brings me to the "seriously structured" thing. When I say that, I mean making missions with a specific eye towards creating a scenario that accurately reflects (as much as DCS can possibly allow) a specific aircraft's real-world usage. This includes putting it in its proper context. As such, if I were to make a serious L-39ZA mission, I would research how it was used in places like Syria, Abkhazia, or other places where it was used specifically in a combat (and not combat training) role. Unfortunately, this would mean creating missions where one's survival rate is not so great as even simple ground fire becomes a massive issue (as in real life).

 

This ties into the larger point I am trying to make with even the F-5E we have in DCS. It is easy to overstate its effectiveness when looking at how well it does in public servers (where creating a inclusive environment to attract players with a variety of skill levels is key and thus tasking and targets tend to be less defended, more static, and easier to attack). When you start thinking about more realistic, more demanding missions, it becomes a bit more complicated and some aircraft (including the L-39ZA and the F-5E) start to seriously show their limits and as I said before. Those limits are interesting to explore but should not be dismissed out of hand.

 

If you are handy with the editor, I would suggest creating some COIN/CAS scenarios for the L-39ZA that somewhat accurately reflect what it has done in real life. I think you will find that even against very basic enemy forces (troops, light armored vehicles, MANPAD's, and even simple AA gun emplacements), the L-39ZA will struggle to keep up. The F-5E does a bit better but even when designing missions for it, you will find that its DACT focused configuration will limit just how far you can push it in terms of mission design.

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Depends on why you like to fly aircraft and what you want to do with them, or how complicated you want your aircraft to be.

 

If you want something that is fairly easy to learn/fly with cold war weapons systems this is a great aircraft, and a decent dogfighter. It's also fun as an "Aggressor" aircraft for training missions, since it filled that role IRL. It's pretty simple, however, so you're limited to IR missiles, guns, dumb bombs and rockets.

 

Overall I enjoy the plane. It doesn't take a whole lot of poking around the cockpit before I remember how to make her fully operational.

 

The only big issue I have with it is in the modern setting (besides weapons selection) is its lack of IFF for the radar. You have to VID everything, you only have 2 missiles, and you're slightly underpowered in the thrust department (giggity).

 

If you want something a little more complicated from the same era, the MiG-21 is a good one, or if you really want to sit down and study, I'd go with the Viggen, or any of the more modern aircraft.

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you will find that

 

I, of course, know this. The thing is, if you want to actually enjoy those missions, you'll either have to A) limit yourself to hostile APCs, infantry & non-radar AAA only or B) use some common sense by preventing those Albies / F-5s / what have you from striking their target before the big boys have taken out the stuff they can't handle.

 

Real life however? As it comes to Syria, I've heard stories of SAF pilots actually liking their Albies, because they're quite manouverable and the loiter time is good. But strangely enough no-one mentions MANPADs - well either because the insurgents don't have them, or, I don't know, maybe because the SAF has retrofitted their entire fleet with flare throwers or something. But in either case, all publicly available documents just state that "a number of AC have been shot down" without disclosing any loss rates that I've seen at least.

 

Still, those guys must base their fondness for the bird on something tangible. Just wonder what that is?

 

PS. I realize I'm drifting kind of off topic here. My apologies ;)

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