The Need for Force Feedback

Hello everyone!

I just recently finished my video, where I'm trying to pay everyone's attention to a problem of lack of force feedback devices in our days.

I had special guests in this clip, ILya "UIV" the head of VKBcontrollers and Andrey Solomykin "An. Petrovich" the leading engineer-programmer of "IL2-Sturmovik"

Hope someone will find this video interesting or/and will share his own thoughts on this topic.

Thank you!

Hi. Very nice video.

I welcome your involvement in trying to make flight control devices manufacturers to develop force feedback controls.

My MS FFB2 is begging for retirement.

The WWII airplanes and some older Jets would benefit a lot from this, Helicopters too I guess.

I would "only" require a new base, the sticks could hopefully remain the same.

The WWII airplanes and some older Jets would benefit a lot from this, Helicopters too I guess.

 

 

I would "only" require a new base, the sticks could hopefully remain the same.

Yes they would benefit THE MOST (because aerodynamic forces directly on stick). But I don't know if any modern FBW plane exists for real without a forcefeedback unit coupled to it (Edit : F16 of course).

In fact some modern planes are very rich concerning FFB - the hornet for exemple. And not only for the stick ! (crazy but the throttle is also forcefeedback for ATC to work)

There is a little hope coming from the Chinese market.

Actually, wouldn't a proper FFB stick be nice for FBW aircraft as well? For instance, the "feel" of F-16s force sensing stick could re kinda replicated with a FFB stick in that movement of the stick is severly limited through its motor system.

And doesn't the F/A-18s controls provide some feedback to the pilot despite being FBW?

Actually, wouldn't a proper FFB stick be nice for FBW aircraft as well? For instance, the "feel" of F-16s force sensing stick could re kinda replicated with a FFB stick in that movement of the stick is severly limited through its motor system.

 

 

 

And doesn't the F/A-18s controls provide some feedback to the pilot despite being FBW?

For the F-16 it's a little different, the stick is basically a force feedback sensor with very small amount of movement, kind of like FFB in reverse.

There is already a device available that mimics the F-16 mechanism for the consumer market.

http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb_r3_lighting.html

Hello everyone!

 

I just recently finished my video, where I'm trying to pay everyone's attention to a problem of lack of force feedback devices in our days.

 

I had special guests in this clip, ILya "UIV" the head of VKBcontrollers and Andrey Solomykin "An. Petrovich" the leading engineer-programmer of "IL2-Sturmovik"

 

Hope someone will find this video interesting or/and will share his own thoughts on this topic.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to arrange this, it is something that is LONG overdue in the flight sim market. Your point about the racing sim market being flooded with FFB compared to the sim market is spot on.

If VKB / Virpil were to release a FFB base - THAT DOESN'T USE GEARS!!!! Hint! - I'd be smashing that "Add To Cart" button right now!

It's odd I see a lot of talk about ffb on a stick but while I haven't flown an F16 I have flown a few fighters and a few commercial aircraft. While the stick in the commercial aircraft shakes with the stick shaker other than that artificial feedback buffet in an aircraft is felt through the airframe.

I use a jetseat at home which to me feel way more representative of operating an aircraft vs having the stick shake.

I do appreciate for Helo flying and some other scenarios it may be a good fit but for fixed wing fighter flying a jetseat is way more realistic imo.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Wow that's a really well-made video.

I like how you confront ILya on VKB's focus on more buttons over FFB.

Let's hope something comes from this.

But, I remember my Logitech 3D Pro joystick with FFB. After a few years the stick started to vibrate in neutral position, even I wasn't using it, and soon after the FFB mechanism broke.

I bet that many joystick and HOTAS engineers have decided the FFB system introduces too high risk for joystick breakage. After all, with FFB you're applying more force on the stick than you would without FFB.

More input force + more breakable parts = more broken joysticks

It's odd I see a lot of talk about ffb on a stick but while I haven't flown an F16 I have flown a few fighters and a few commercial aircraft. While the stick in the commercial aircraft shakes with the stick shaker other than that artificial feedback buffet in an aircraft is felt through the airframe.

 

I use a jetseat at home which to me feel way more representative of operating an aircraft vs having the stick shake.

 

I do appreciate for Helo flying and some other scenarios it may be a good fit but for fixed wing fighter flying a jetseat is way more realistic imo.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Yes Jetseat device must be very cool and add realism.

Still, vibration near stall is realistic with FBW plane like for exemple the A10c : in landing configuration (flaps full down) the A10c stick vibrates, in DCS with FFB like in real life (it's supposed to help pilot flaring the aircraft).

But more important, FFB offers the change of neutral stick position when trimming (like in A10c pitch and roll, or F18c only pitch in landing configuration), and FFB offers the change in stick forces - of course with aerodynamic forces (like in any non FBW aircraft) - but also with some FBW aircraft like F18c (stick forces change per G : full stick backward gives around 3.5 G at 250knots but more than 7 G past 450 knots. Plus over 22° AOA the forces increase again). It's not implemented in DCS F18 but is supposed to be in futur.

Yes Jetseat device must be very cool and add realism.

 

Still, vibration near stall is realistic with FBW plane like for exemple the A10c : in landing configuration (flaps full down) the A10c stick vibrates, in DCS with FFB like in real life (it's supposed to help pilot flaring the aircraft).

 

But more important, FFB offers the change of neutral stick position when trimming (like in A10c pitch and roll, or F18c only pitch in landing configuration), and FFB offers the change in stick forces - of course with aerodynamic forces (like in any non FBW aircraft) - but also with some FBW aircraft like F18c (stick forces change per G : full stick backward gives around 3.5 G at 250knots but more than 7 G past 450 knots. Plus over 22° AOA the forces increase again). It's not implemented in DCS F18 but is supposed to be in futur.

+1

My msffb2 is amazing but it would be so much better having a modern equivalent. It changes everything! It doesn't matter what aircraft you fly it can be implemented to feel like you are at the control of THAT aircraft.