Modern-aircraft DCS pilots: What do you prefer over the older aircraft?

I enjoy flying the simpler aircraft in DCS: WW2 and especially the F-86 and helicopters, yet I actually prefer the idea of flying the most modern planes.

When I try them though (e.g. I did the M-2000C tutorials and started the campaign in the last few days) I find such a learning curve to use their avionics that it feels more like doing an exam than flying a plane!

This is probably just due to having a family so I play late at night when I'm short on time and tired.

I am thinking about playing through the M-2000C campaign though and it got me wondering:

What aspect of flying the modern jets gives players the most fun compared to older aircraft?

Assuming it's the combat, what do you prefer about the modern armament/systems and style of combat?

Cheers

Edit: I should point out that I'm not a complete stranger to in-depth avionics as I completed all of the black shark and A-10C campaigns years ago. It's just that can't remember how to use them now :-)

May you allow me to answer this question in the opposite way: what do I dislike in modern aircrafts over the older ones?

The fact that the missiles do the job alone (ok, almost alone) making the air combat more an "intellectual" abstract thing than a physical direct contact.

May you allow me to answer this question in the opposite way: what do I dislike in modern aircrafts over the older ones?

The fact that the missiles do the job alone (ok, almost alone) making the air combat more an "intellectual" abstract thing than a physical direct contact.

As someone who really enjoys WW2 I'm not sure I agree. The missiles are an added threat that you have to make your best efforts to evade/avoid and if you like gun fighting then you have to get in close - so with an F-5 for example. In this arena the experienced WW2 style pilot can do really well. I like the added challenge of the missiles.

For me I like flying modern stuff because of the speed, the systems and the accuracy of ground attack weapons. It's a different challenge for me to hit a moving target from 15-20,000ft in an A-10C.

Most of the time the flying for me is about teamwork and enjoying the thrill with other people; when I've got that I don't mind what I am flying.

In fact, I was talking of the "Spamrams" style modern missiles, not the Cold War missiles I would enjoy a lot, especially in a Vietnam war contest.

Both are really nice to flight and fight ;)

For me I have all the US aircraft and I don't mind flying any of them. Personally the a-10 is the god of DCS. I love the bird and working with all of its intricacies. I can take a nice load out fly for hours top off on the tanker and keep going. If I want to get up for a bathroom break than I whack on the autopilot and do my thing. When I come back sit down get comfortable, I'm ready to go. Learning a module is half of the fun. I love dreaming of the next time I get on learning how I can broadcast my spi so my fellow pilots can see the massive threat that is the Sam sight just over the hill. Sead in the a-10 is so exciting and the feeling of satisfaction when you pop up from the valley a few minutes later and see the smoke in the distance. And the last thing is when your doing you mission on a server and someone comes over in a fighter you dodge the Missile and hit them with an aim 9 to the back. So I guess all in all the modern aircraft keep me busy and entertained were as the older aircraft are easy to use but annoying to fly for me. Plus I suck at air to air guns. And spotting aircraft.

i really like both but AT LEAST FOR NOW, more interested in modern aircrafts, mostly because speed. Plus i find missiles really fun.

btw, im new on dcs and i have to say missiles are not doing the job alone, and not even with my help because i die almsot everytime someone engages me :P

Modern avionics add more variables to the fight and active missiles make combat even more complex. Missiles are like bullets, they follow the laws of physics and nothing else. It's the pilot and his skill behind the firing button and the skill of the pilot in the receiving end that ultimately dictates if the missile is going to hit or not, just like with bullets.

I like the complexity as you need to know a lot about the technology you are using and keep tabs on a lot more things and think ahead a lot farther both in space and time to beat your oppponent than compared to older planes. I'm not saying combat in WW2 planes isn't complex also but it's more intuition and skill while modern planes allow (thus require) more deliberate stategic thinking.

Modern combat planes represent the pinnacle of the human ingenuinety and knowledge and learning to use one properly really highlits the hard work, dedication and genius of the people who have been involved in the history of combat aviation. Flying the F-15C really gives you the sense of being in control of a machine that has been evolved to the top of the food chain of all planes past and present. You have very few things to nitpick about it's design compared to older planes (only problem is that FC level modeling doesn't do it justice). Although F-15 is old stuff already the F-22 is still so secret that you don't really know what you are missing.

For me, it's the complexity that's the draw. I played WW1/WW2 flight sims pretty much continuously from 1991-ish (can't remember exactly, was very little) up till around 2013. I reached a point where there was simply nothing new to learn, arrogant as that may sound. But it's true, 20+ years of playing 1 very specific type of game will do that. Post Korea aircraft offer something new and different. I don't find the systems particularly intimidating, but the combat offers a lot more depth. It's not enough to simply manage energy well and know what you can out turn and what you can out climb/run/dive and so on. You also have to know how to evade detection, break a missile lock and evade a missile. Combat is faster with less room for error and the planes are more limited by your imagination than aerodynamics and engine power.

My favored aircraft at the moment are the Ka-50, MiG-21, F-5E and Mirage 2000. The MiG-21 and F-5E offer a very interesting mix of WW2 style fighting combined with some crude missile combat. I think overall, it's my favorite air to air period and hope it gets expanded on. Using missiles accurately for those planes takes skill, it's nothing like the spamramm. Gun kills are pretty common with those two as well. I've yet to find anything more exciting in all of video gaming than charging in, firing a pair of missiles, having the guy dodge them and blasting by with a mach 1 speed difference for a gun kill. It's truly different from what I've done in flight sims for last couple decades.

The Mirage 2000 offers a more modern take, but even with it, closing to guns is a common occurrence. It has the RWR, performance and countermeasures to render the spamramms largely useless. And once in close range, it's a monster. The fun here is getting into range mostly, once there, the kill is less interesting imho.

The Ka-50 offers something different from all the fixed wing stuff. It rewards tactics and situational awareness in addition to reflexes. As such, it's more methodical and I find that style of play both relaxing and interesting. It certainly helps that it is by far the best tank killer in the game and not too shabby at SEAD either. And unlike the A-10, it can hide in a high threat environment effectively. This has been my favorite aircraft in DCS since BS1 was released on DVD and will likely remain so until a second attack helicopter is added (come on BST, get that Hind and Cobra out:D).

I like the technical learning. I like all of the modules, including WW2 era, since they have their own technical challenges. I know for a fact that there are people who like different things, which is a nice thing about flight simulation, it's not just liking one aspect. Systems are fun though, and technology needs no less understanding just because the target is 20 miles away, it's just different.

But for playing an hour a night to wind down (in the OP), I think that is quite challenging to be sitting down to study. I don;t think this woudl be my goto game for that, I'd be looking for something less complex. DCS is a hobby to many and rewards time spent.

Right now I'm into modern craft because military aviation was a goal for myself for a lot of my youth. Having an f18, being on a carrier, etc. I love the modern avionics too. If Dcs had ww2 naval stuff I would go nuts though. Battlefield 1942 was my 1st experience with anything near simulation of the SDB .

Ultimately though, I think modern craft offer more to do and master. That's more than enough reward for me.

I love cold war era aircrafts. Where you do have technology but human factor is still more important.

About modern aircrafts, I like the challenge it takes you to learn them. Switches, knobs and lights make me go crazy

Modern 4th generation fighters have increased maneuverability in the WVR arena and that opens up a whole world of BFM tactics that just are not available to earlier fighters.

Propeller fighters and the early generation jets were very thrust limited (T/W ratios << 1.0) and that limited their options significantly. Tactical maneuvers in the vertical plane required storing up E ahead of time. In a basic offensive/defensive BFM scenario, the defending fighter had limited options to counter an attacker's vertical reposition due to his limited E following his defensive break. This leads to a bounce - zoom - bounce - zoom sequence that grants near-immunity for the attacker as long as he kills or separates before bleeding off his initial E advantage.

A proper fourth generation fighter can retain vertical maneuvering capability due to its higher T/W ratio even after a defensive break turn. A vertical zoom or High Yo-Yo is no longer a "get out of jail free" card for the attacker facing an impending flight path overshoot. The fourth generation defender can roll wings level, pull up into the vertical and convert a flight path overshoot into a vertical 3/9 overshoot and then into an ordinance opportunity. What would have worked in a P-51 vs. 109 or F-86 vs MiG 17 does NOT work in a F-15 vs. Su-27. This requires and rewards much sharper BFM skills and situational awareness from both parties.

Helicopters! They were invented after WWII and that is what I love flying.

Jets are fun to fly, as said before, the power available, the "need for speed"...

The WWII planes have there own nice twists and details, so from time to time I get some nostalgia and fly around in a 109 or Mustang.

As I am a terrible dogfighter, it is more the flying I enjoy, but I actually love flying anything from planes to helos and maybe spaceships as long as its not a nerfed arcade experience... What in the end made me abandon Mr. Brabens 'Elite "Boost-in-space-and-keep-the-throttle-in-the-blue" Ridiculous'.

DCS simply feels real, like no other Sim I've flown, and the more modern stuff is a great challenge to mix flying and fighting a complex warmachine... :)

May you allow me to answer this question in the opposite way: what do I dislike in modern aircrafts over the older ones?

The fact that the missiles do the job alone (ok, almost alone) making the air combat more an "intellectual" abstract thing than a physical direct contact.

This, and I am a stick and rudder seat of pants human hands on flyer who finds that managing 'systems', like in modern combat aircraft, is just not were it is at for me. I like the human judgement involved in, for example, using the human brain to estimate a deflection shot and fly my crate without system aids. Missiles are just so unsporting and flying systems too much is a cold experience for me. As for some computer generated voice telling me to "pull-up-pull-up-pull-up" or whatever, well that just sucks; might as well go fly an airliner simulator :P

Don't get me wrong, I agree with different strokes for different folks and that's great. I am happy to see people happy to fly what they want to. I love all aircraft, but I only have so much time to spend on flight simulation, so I prioritise my most passionate fantasy and that is WWII war birds. The real deal for me is human vs human competitive combat in MP with organised squads and historical flying/maps and tactics. I go as far as the Korea conflict in terms of my favourite aircraft to fly. I must say I just love that Mig-15 and wish there was more of a following for Korea style MP maps/servers. But I suspect that would only happen, the way I would like to see it, if we had a joined-up Korea plane set and historical map.

Happy landings,

For me, what I like in the fast jets (F-5E, M-2000C and Viggen) is the speed! I love the speed!

I'm also a big rockets / heaters fan. I like the AIM-9P as you have to get in the bogey's six and try to get the right fire angle.

But as the pure joy of flying is concerned, nothing but then really nothing can beat the Warbirds for me. They are the ultimate planes ever made imho.

I'm an avionics guy. I only fly the A-10C. I love everything sensors and would take an MQ-9 Reaper module with a well made IR implementation over anyhing older than fourth gen fighters.

FLIR, IR pointers, NVGs, laser guided munitions, GPS, datalinks. Oh my. :)

There's also the potential for more interesting radar. GCI, ATC, AWACS, carrier and naval sensors. I'm hoping we see 3rd party features like LoTATC get more expansive and more integrated.

Flying fast modern jets has it all, I love ww2 aircraft, the barebones flying has a special place but after you've fast jetted for a while ww2 just feels so slow paced. Modern fighters require the full package, you've got to be tactically smart and cunning in BVR, missile defence and team co-ordination but you also better be brushed up on BFM because when the former is equally matched BFM is where you settle it.

When I was coming of age in the '90s my friends and I flew flight sims from all of the eras, anything from WW1 to the modern stuff. To this day I still enjoy every era and find something interesting about each one.

WW1 is in-your-face air combat. Unlike several others in this thread, in my mind the slower the planes go the faster the pace of combat. The turn rates are much faster than what you get in any other era, and the density of aircraft in a dogfight is very high.

WW2 allows me to express my inner Boom-n-Zoom pilot and the art of the one-pass kill. The pace of combat has slowed a lot compared to WW1, but there is more reward for patience and planning. Warbird evolution is amazing, too, where time showed that the best fighters were becoming heavier and faster, trading turn-rate for firepower and the ability to engage and disengage at will.

Now, what I like about 3rd and 4th generation aircraft is the speed and the avionics. Speed speaks for itself I guess. Learning the avionics is a hurdle, but once you learn one it becomes easier to learn the others. You're repeating the same processes, just in a different way. But I like that when I see someone in an A-10C or Mirage 2000C I know that he's put in the time to learn how the real thing works.

The hardest thing to adapt to is the missiles, of course. The idea that someone can shoot you down without seeing you can seem counter to the spirit of combat. This is where the avionics become important, and a good 4th gen pilot is checking his RWR and radar at least as often as he scanning visually. It's a technology war, after all. The whole idea is to give a mediocre pilot a good chance to shoot down a better pilot by equipping him with the means to make the kill before his target is even a threat!

I know this is highly subjective matter but the main reason why modern jets are more attractive for me are the looks and the "energy" management.

I have the same problems with the training missions, they are often daunting, but the cure for that is multiplayer community where people can teach you in much more engaging way.

Flying modern jet feels like this for me :D

SPEED...THE NEED FOR SPEED:megalol::music_whistling::thumbup::pilotfly:

Modern avionics add more variables to the fight and active missiles make combat even more complex. Missiles are like bullets, they follow the laws of physics and nothing else. It's the pilot and his skill behind the firing button and the skill of the pilot in the receiving end that ultimately dictates if the missile is going to hit or not, just like with bullets.

 

I like the complexity as you need to know a lot about the technology you are using and keep tabs on a lot more things and think ahead a lot farther both in space and time to beat your oppponent than compared to older planes. I'm not saying combat in WW2 planes isn't complex also but it's more intuition and skill while modern planes allow (thus require) more deliberate stategic thinking.

 

Modern combat planes represent the pinnacle of the human ingenuinety and knowledge and learning to use one properly really highlits the hard work, dedication and genius of the people who have been involved in the history of combat aviation. Flying the F-15C really gives you the sense of being in control of a machine that has been evolved to the top of the food chain of all planes past and present. You have very few things to nitpick about it's design compared to older planes (only problem is that FC level modeling doesn't do it justice). Although F-15 is old stuff already the F-22 is still so secret that you don't really know what you are missing.

I was wondering the same until I read the DCS write up:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15c_dcs_world/

'The DCS Flaming Cliffs F-15C includes a professional level flight model'

I too like electronics, air to ground/air to air radar and weapon delivery systems, sophisticated NAV and avionics systems all built into a fast fighter. I've been sitting on the fence trying to figure out which plane I want to invest in the learning curve.

One thing that I don't like is not having an English cockpit, the learning curve is a lot quicker when you can read and understand without a translation sheet.

Interesting thoughts here...

I was wondering the same until I read the DCS write up:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15c_dcs_world/

'The DCS Flaming Cliffs F-15C includes a professional level flight model'

...

Yes, flight model is ok but system model is bit simple.

Its still really good plane to use, only bad AI and bad missile/sensor modeling makes it frustrating sometimes.

For me modern planes are way to go because hide and seek with sensors requires more planing than ww2 style furball. :smartass:

Yes, flight model is ok but system model is bit simple.

 

Its still really good plane to use, only bad AI and bad missile/sensor modeling makes it frustrating sometimes.

 

 

 

For me modern planes are way to go because hide and seek with sensors requires more planing than ww2 style furball. :smartass:

I forget, will flying low through a city mess with radar trying to track you?