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Old 02-03-2018, 09:28 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by CrashO View Post
Wasn't Leatherneck/Heatblur already working on this at one point? It's still in the list of stuff to be included with the F-14. And from one of the Q&A's with Cobra
Im going to throw out a random guess.

North Atlantic map. Cold and very oceany with an ICeland being the only land mass, without much on it.


A hypothetical Cold war scenario, that could have happened.


http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...-iceland-19143
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Kev2go View Post
Im going to throw out a random guess.

North Atlantic map. Cold and very oceany with an ICeland being the only land mass, without much on it.


A hypothetical Cold war scenario, that could have happened.


http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...-iceland-19143
Maybe, but with a single land mass, you're limiting the map to carrier-only aircraft.

You ideally want a large body of water that also has land on both sides, and possibly in the middle as well.

Iceland could work, but then you'd also want Norway / Denmark / Northern UK as well.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:00 AM   #43
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Maybe, but with a single land mass, you're limiting the map to carrier-only aircraft.

You ideally want a large body of water that also has land on both sides, and possibly in the middle as well.

Iceland could work, but then you'd also want Norway / Denmark / Northern UK as well.
Not necessarily, I know we're not supposed to talk about or make comparison to other software but SF2 NA did it brilliantly - open ocean + Iceland, normally scenarios were against surface action groups using ship-borne aircraft, but also you could easily have scenarios with short-range CAS within Iceland itself (say BLUFOR on the west, REDFOR on the east) or have ship borne aircraft vs land-based aircraft - it's not necessarily restricted solely to ship borne aircraft.

Here's a proposal I have for a North Atlantic map, just by doing my best at drawing a rectangle in Google Earth.



The map measures up at roughly 1,740x840km, the polygon I've drawn in GE is roughly 1,450,000km^2, of which ~104,500km^2 is landmass - roughly a third of the NTTR map. It includes Iceland, the Faroe Islands and the Shetland Islands, it also includes Fair Isles. It just falls short of the Orkney islands and so is entirely bordered by water.

Iceland has 32 airports dotted around it, most of which are solely public or are private, but in DCS we have a sandbox so can do what we like. Only Keflavík really has military presence in the aircraft sense (NASKEF). There are other military installations on Iceland (such as NRTF Grindavik) but not much, I believe there are plans for a military airbase somewhere on Iceland by the US.

The Faroe islands are Danish territory 470km to the southwest of Iceland. It has 1 airport (Vágar Airport) and as far as I can tell doesn't have a military presence, but that's not to say we can't as mission designers add military installations semi-prepared airbases or unprepared ones. (Vágar Airport was initially a WWII development, so it has at least abandoned military heritage).

The Shetland Islands have 8 airports with paved runways, of which realistically only Sumburgh and Scatsa are potential candidates for what we have currently.

Sumburgh (formally RAF Sumburgh during WWII) currently has 2 runways, one is 1.5km long, the other 1.426km long - which is just about long enough for some of the aircraft we currently have in DCS, but it will be a bit tricky.

Scatsa (again a WWII development, formerly RAF Scatsa) has a single 1.36km runway - we're pushing it a bit here.

Both Sumburgh and Scatsa are slightly larger than the 'X' airfield near Kobuleti on the current Caucasus map, just for a sense of scale.

The rest of the airfields, are essentially just a short single runway and not much else, some don't even have a parking area at all. All the airfields are public/privately owned. There is a military presence to the North (RRH Saxa Vold) which could serve as a strategic location, but isn't an airbase, just an ex (but due to be reactivated) remote radar head.

Most of the terrain in the Shetlands is relatively flat and barren - perfect for potential sites for constructing FOBs and semi-prepared airbases. Maybe in the future we could effectively build airbases in the mission editor with static objects (such as runways, aprons, hangars, towers, NAVAIDs, lights etc) providing we get the assets for them.

The other alternative is to extend quite a bit further south (~280km) to include the most northerly UK airbase - RAF (formely RNAS) Lossiemouth, which is ~270km from the southern tip of the Shetland islands. Lossiemouth has adjacent to it RAF Milltown - now closed, used as a transmitting site for the RAF VOLMET and STCICS. Adding this region adds 20,000km^2 but cuts up the Outer Hebrides, and the northern portion of Inner Hebrides, something I think is undesirable (I like having areas as complete as possible).

The problem here is that the landscape is much more complex, the Shetland Islands are fairly flat and barren, the only complicated bits are the cliffs; the Faroe islands are more hilly but otherwise relatively featureless (but still looks great IMO - perfect for a quasi-Falklands bomb alley scenario) and Iceland more complex and featureful, but still mostly barren. The north of Scotland however has pretty complex terrain, both along the coasts and further in land as well as complex archipelagos and features more populated areas. If it could be done, getting as much area as possible that would be great, but for me something like Iceland, the Faroe Islands and the Shetlands seems perfect and more doable in a (hopefully) much shorter time frame.

For a predominantly naval map, it would be great to see underwater, with a sea bed - which the current 2.5 Caucasus map has got darn near nailed (apart from we can't go there - yet), I think Normandy has it to (but I don't own it). But one thing I'd like to eliminate that's present in Normandy is land borders where there should be ocean. The map I propose is entirely bordered by Ocean, so preferably/hopefully no land borders and instead endless water and underwater land.

This map has ample area for multiple surface action groups/battlegroups, is near perfect for amphibious operations whilst also supporting logistics and long-range bombing. Obviously it's more catered for naval operations (both above and below the waves) but land based aircraft and land based conflict still doable (you could kind of envision a Falklands style campaign). Yes larger aircraft aren't so great because the only airport with large runways is Keflavík, the rest are only suited to aircraft that can do short-field operations - though we could still operate Hercules aircraft including KC-130, we just need to be careful with aircraft and how heavily we load them, but then all the more reason to have airfield arresting cables that we can place as we desire (even if it's not strictly their intended purpose).

Just on the side whilst I don't mind flat-earth projection for now, I wonder if this map, if it were to be considered could use spherical projection? Not really that important, just an idea.

Blimey, death by words much, but any thoughts on this?
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:14 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Lunatic98 View Post
Not necessarily, I know we're not supposed to talk about or make comparison to other software but SF2 NA did it brilliantly - open ocean + Iceland, normally scenarios were against surface action groups using ship-borne aircraft, but also you could easily have scenarios with short-range CAS within Iceland itself (say BLUFOR on the west, REDFOR on the east) or have ship borne aircraft vs land-based aircraft - it's not necessarily restricted solely to ship borne aircraft.

Here's a proposal I have for a North Atlantic map, just by doing my best at drawing a rectangle in Google Earth.



The map measures up at roughly 1,740x840km, the polygon I've drawn in GE is roughly 1,450,000km^2, of which ~104,500km^2 is landmass - roughly a third of the NTTR map. It includes Iceland, the Faroe Islands and the Shetland Islands, it also includes Fair Isles. It just falls short of the Orkney islands and so is entirely bordered by water.

Iceland has 32 airports dotted around it, most of which are solely public or are private, but in DCS we have a sandbox so can do what we like. Only Keflavík really has military presence in the aircraft sense (NASKEF). There are other military installations on Iceland (such as NRTF Grindavik) but not much, I believe there are plans for a military airbase somewhere on Iceland by the US.

The Faroe islands are Danish territory 470km to the southwest of Iceland. It has 1 airport (Vágar Airport) and as far as I can tell doesn't have a military presence, but that's not to say we can't as mission designers add military installations semi-prepared airbases or unprepared ones. (Vágar Airport was initially a WWII development, so it has at least abandoned military heritage).

The Shetland Islands have 8 airports with paved runways, of which realistically only Sumburgh and Scatsa are potential candidates for what we have currently.

Sumburgh (formally RAF Sumburgh during WWII) currently has 2 runways, one is 1.5km long, the other 1.426km long - which is just about long enough for some of the aircraft we currently have in DCS, but it will be a bit tricky.

Scatsa (again a WWII development, formerly RAF Scatsa) has a single 1.36km runway - we're pushing it a bit here.

Both Sumburgh and Scatsa are slightly larger than the 'X' airfield near Kobuleti on the current Caucasus map, just for a sense of scale.

The rest of the airfields, are essentially just a short single runway and not much else, some don't even have a parking area at all. All the airfields are public/privately owned. There is a military presence to the North (RRH Saxa Vold) which could serve as a strategic location, but isn't an airbase, just an ex (but due to be reactivated) remote radar head.

Most of the terrain in the Shetlands is relatively flat and barren - perfect for potential sites for constructing FOBs and semi-prepared airbases. Maybe in the future we could effectively build airbases in the mission editor with static objects (such as runways, aprons, hangars, towers, NAVAIDs, lights etc) providing we get the assets for them.

The other alternative is to extend quite a bit further south (~280km) to include the most northerly UK airbase - RAF (formely RNAS) Lossiemouth, which is ~270km from the southern tip of the Shetland islands. Lossiemouth has adjacent to it RAF Milltown - now closed, used as a transmitting site for the RAF VOLMET and STCICS. Adding this region adds 20,000km^2 but cuts up the Outer Hebrides, and the northern portion of Inner Hebrides, something I think is undesirable (I like having areas as complete as possible).

The problem here is that the landscape is much more complex, the Shetland Islands are fairly flat and barren, the Faroe islands are more hilly but otherwise relatively featureless (but still looks great IMO) and Iceland more complex and featureful. The north of Scotland has pretty complex terrain, as well as complex archipelagos and is much more populated. If it could be done, getting as much area as possible that would be great, but to me something like Iceland, the Faroe Islands and the Shetlands seems more doable in a (hopefully) much shorter time frame.

For a predominantly naval map, it would be great to see underwater, with a sea bed - which the current 2.5 Caucasus map has, I think Normandy has it to. But one thing I'd like to eliminate that's present in Normandy is land borders where there should be ocean. The map I propose is entirely bordered by Ocean, so preferably/hopefully no land borders and instead endless water and underwater land.

Just on the side whilst I don't mind flat-earth projection for now, I wonder if this map, if it were to be considered could use spherical projection? Not really that important, just an idea.

Blimey, death by words much, but any thoughts on this?
Sound like a great idea

Even more expansive than the SF2 NA map.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gospadin View Post
Maybe, but with a single land mass, you're limiting the map to carrier-only aircraft.

You ideally want a large body of water that also has land on both sides, and possibly in the middle as well.

Iceland could work, but then you'd also want Norway / Denmark / Northern UK as well.
Not really. Iceland HAs airfields.

USSR can have already captured airfields on the other side of island to allow for land based fighters.

ANd have nato have 1 airfield, the Keflavik INt airport requisitioned for Land fighter use.

While this would Be carrier focused. IE F14's providing air cover and first gain air supriority, the main job would be for Attackers like the A7 and/ or A6 to Support US naval Ships in attacking Naval Fleet. Either way, if one isn't going to be afraid of anachronistic planes for "balance", Russia does have KUzenstov Carrier plus Su33 air superiority naval fighter, so they aren't forced to just Land based aircraft.

It would be upt to the mission to how they set it up. One land mass wouldn't be limiting and like lunatic offered it could be made even larger to include more sea and some very small islands.

I wouldn't use the excuse that if we introduced North Atlantic map with Iceland the community would suddenly want and be able to force all those other locations like UK, Denmark or Norway into it. By that logic why bother make any maps after Caucasus for DCS ? That reasoning doesn't make sense.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:53 PM   #46
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Yeah +1, Why not.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:04 PM   #47
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Azovi Sea map with 21 airfields? Primorsko-Akhtarsk, Yeysk, Aksay, Oktyabrskiy, Taganrog-North, Taganrog-South, Mariupol, Bergyanszk, Tokmark, Melitopol, Genichesk + Dzhankoy, Krasnogvardejskoe, Kerch, Kirovskoe, Anapa, Novorossysk Gelendzhik, Krymsk, Krasnodar-Center, Krasnodar-Pashkovsky
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:36 PM   #48
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The Sea of Azov is a pretty small region - not exactly suitable for large naval operations. Plus we practically already have it, minus the other airfields with the Caucasus map.
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:08 AM   #49
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Not really. Iceland HAs airfields.
Sure, but only 3 of them are paved I think, all in the western half.

Akureyri vs Keflavik?
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:19 AM   #50
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Sure, but only 3 of them are paved I think, all in the western half.

Akureyri vs Keflavik?
I dont know which airfields were Paved IN the cold war, but today looking from google maps seems the majority of them are.

Even then i dont see a problem for Redforces as many planes including the Mig29 and Su27s have more rugged landing gear compared to many American AF aircraft.. They were designed to be take off from poor quality landing strips or From Roadways converted into strips. They can handle taking off from a unpaved Strip.

IF "balance" is a concern, that Soviets cant put up any Naval avation assets up in the air ( this would apply to any other sea based map) its up to the Mission Designer to still decide whether or not to throw in the Kuzentov carrier, to deploy Su33's from, even if it is anachronistic for the cold war period.
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