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Old 02-25-2019, 10:29 AM   #41
Ranma13
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Another small update, I confirmed with the vJoy developer that vJoy is hard-coded to use only effect block index 1, which I also verified by checking the vJoy source code. Based on his other forum posts, it also seems that he's stopped all development on vJoy and considers it end-of-life, so the chances of him fixing it are basically nil.

Unfortunately, I'm a web developer and not a driver developer. I could update vJoy myself to fix the effect block index issue, but it would likely take me ages just to understand how the driver works, and ages more to actually implement the update. For now, I think I'll stick to the vJoy driver until it becomes impossible to work around the effect block index issue.

On the plus side, I verified that DCS will create 3 effects when it starts up: spring for centering, periodic square for jolts and stall shakes, and constant force. As far as I can tell with the modules that I own, only spring and periodic square forces are used. This is great because it means that I don't really need to rely on the effect block index; the spring force has a set of parameters specific only to it, so if I get a FFB command with those parameters, I know that it's for the spring force. Likewise applies to the periodic square force. DCS will also send a "stop the effect at block index 1" command, but it will never stop the spring effect, so I know the command is for the periodic force. As long as there are no additional curveballs, I should have no issues from the vJoy side.

The next step is to get access to CLS2Sim by purchasing a Brunner base. I'm still trying to raise the funds I need to pick one up, so it might take a while. In the meantime, I will check how other sims such as IL:2 and Rise of Flight handle FFB. If vJoy doesn't pan out, a backup idea is to use the Virtual HID Framework that Microsoft created as part of their Windows Driver Kit. It only works with Windows 10 and requires C++, but it also greatly simplifies the creation of a virtual HID device. As long as I can get it to the point where I can send and receive HID reports, the rest should be fairly straightforward as I already have a good understanding of how HID reports and the FFB protocol works.

And since everyone likes pictures, here's what my app currently looks like:



This is in the Su-25T. The center point offset for the spring effect is the center position of the joystick. Here, it's -2392, indicating that it's slightly forward. The positive and negative coefficient determines how strong the spring effect is. The faster you're flying, the stronger the spring effect, but on my MSFFB2, I can barely tell the difference between 4000 and 6000. For the square effect, the magnitude is how strong the back and forth effect is, and the period is how fast it oscillates back and forth. With a 2444 magnitude (out of 10,000) and a 95 period (I think this means 1/95 seconds, but not 100% sure yet), the stick is giving a fairly mild but quick shake.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:41 PM   #42
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Ranma,

As my understanding of programming is limited (nil), I just wanted to ask, how hard do you think would it be to integrate using the vJoy and only utilize the trim effects? I ask the question, as I am interested in what you've been posting (albeit, just lurking).


I think these are the most important, with stall buffeting being close after that. For fixed, and rotary wing alike, though, when using trim, corresponding movement of the stick is most important.


Hardware trim through CLS2 does this already, but this is limited in 'realism' for modern aircraft only. It would be great to be able to adjust the P-51's trim, for example, using buttons on a different controller, and have the stick adjust based on that.


Even with the current plugins for P3d, and X-Plane, I seem to have better luck with hardware trim, than with the plugin. When I set up the VRS Superbug in P3d, I created a profile using software trim. All buttons were confirmed mapped correctly. The roll trim would actually move the stick, but pitch trim didn't move anything at all. I ended up going back to hardware trim, and the only thing the plugin does now, is provide a bit of engine rumble.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:28 PM   #43
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Trim effect should be the easiest to implement because every module supports it and CLS2Sim's API has direct support for setting the trim position. The incoming FFB trim data ranges from -10,000 to +10,000 and CLS2Sim ranges from -1.0 to +1.0, so theoretically all I have to do is scale it properly, pass it directly off to CLS2Sim, and everything should work as expected, including being able to change the trim on another device and have the CLS-E base respond accordingly.

Stall buffeting will be harder to implement. Most modules don't send a FFB "shake stick" command when nearing a stall. However, I have a JetSeat and I noticed that it will rumble when nearing a stall, so I've been looking at the exported data from SimShaker and I think I can use that data to add additional force feedback effects such as rumbling when the cannon is fired, a small shake when a missile is launched, and a light rumbling when afterburners are engaged.

On that point, I wanted to ask: how are the rumble effects implemented with the CLS-E base? According to the API, there's a fast vibration and a slow vibration effect, but I don't know if those vibrations are generated by the force feedback motors themselves, or through additional offset motors like the kind used in game controllers. This will affect how I implement some of the effects, because a stick shake effect using offset motors will feel very different than shaking the actual stick itself.
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:04 AM   #44
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Without taking it apart, I can’t say for sure, but it feels like all effects come from the base motors. In fact, the stick oscillates a bit if left alone sometimes.
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:50 AM   #45
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Default MS FFB2 joystick or successor for DCS in 2019?

Hello,

I use a Saitek Pro Flight Yoke since 2009, but I am not satisfied with it under DCS because despite my multiple settings, there is still too much floating and it is almost impossible to aim with.
Besides, I also have an old MS Sidewinder Force Feeback 2 joystick (crashed by my wife in 2009 doing housework). I just resurrect it and I try to use it under DCS since Sunday night.

Everything is recognized under DCS (Windows 10), but the force feedback does not work.
I am currently looking for a solution on the side of the drivers (but I have little hope for this joystick that is no longer produced since 2001).

In addition, beyond being annoyed at not being able to use my FFB, while I have the configuration that goes well, it also seems that the FFB joysticks feedback force, are scarce .. .

So what joystick would you recommend for DCS ?
I have trouble finding accurate and current info on this.
Eagle Dynamics does not advocate any particular Joystick apparently.

I already have a rudder and wish a two-axis (possibly FFB) joystick.
Nota: I mostly fly in VR.


Thank you in advance for your help.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:40 PM   #46
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I have been following this thread since I saw the base last year. I sent them an email asking for a hard number in a group purchase to prioritize creating a driver in DCS. Instead they responded by stating they will have drivers in Q2 of this year for what will likely be one module. Not sure if the FFB hooks Rama has seen in the DCS modules are standardized. But maybe it’s time to save in earnest toward one of these bases.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:37 PM   #47
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Here’s the email I received:


Hi,

Implementation of DCS in CLS2Sim is planned and on the ToDo List
Main Features will be Dynamic Forces..
Estimated approx. End of Q2/2019

maybe only a one aircraft will be supported on the beginning

kind regards

Stefan Brunner


Brunner Elektronik AG
Industriestrasse 27
8335 Hittnau

Telefon: +41 44 953 10 10 Fax: +41 44 953 10 19 Direkt: +41 44 953 10 22
E-Mail: s.brunner@brunner-innovation.swiss Web: www.brunner-innovation.swiss
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:15 AM   #48
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Interesting, this is the first time I've heard of them having an actual estimated timeline. The FFB messages are standardized, so if you implement them for one game, it will work in other games as well. I'm extremely curious how they plan to get around the vJoy effect block index issue. Perhaps they'll go the custom driver route, or perhaps they plan to use vJoy and haven't actually started development.

I'll still continue work on my version. I feel that my implementation will be more full-featured in the end, since I plan to also integrate telemetry data with the base, and not just the FFB messages themselves.
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:15 PM   #49
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Ranma13 sorry that spell check respelled your name wrong in the post above. I hope you will continue working to make a full fledged driver for the base. I am taking it that CLS2Sim is their proprietary driver for their bases. The feedback that I experienced when flying the military sims was incredible, I hope we can add that to DCS in the future.
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