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Old 09-16-2019, 02:42 AM   #1
FoxxyTrotty
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Default No IFF -> Teamkill & AutoKick.

I do not know solution to this, but I'm writing this anyway as this happened to me twice in 2 days.

I have also seen it happen to loads of others over the times, but it is annoying as hell. The chat is almost always the same, because the aircraft who killed, isn't sorry, they're as pissed as the guy who died, because they are gonna get kicked out in a second too. So more info for those who might not know what I'm on about..

In my MP experience, PvP in F18, after start-up I always tune in the AWACS, hit IFF -on then D/L -on, open the SA page. I setup wp9 over bulls and assign it as the AA-wp and get immediate picture, before rolling.

I see fc3 aircraft seem to have iff built it automatically as they show friendly like any other aircraft with IFF, Then there's the usual traffic light system of friendly, unknown and enemy. I get a lot of DCS works by line of sight, including radio and data, tacan as well as the obvious radars .

I suspect someone will suggest the none compliance ID function, but I want to put that to bed here, as completely unrealistic. There's rarely a chance you're going to find a bogie suddenly pop up, and within the limited angles and range required to NCintegrate without huge risk to yourself, not least because even if he didn't see you before, his RWR certainly did and has given vital seconds away while you're trying to find the right angle desperately mashing the depressor. With IFF and DL, you get shared info within a second or so after LOS.

So when people forget (or just don't) use the iff or iff+DL, and you're in the weeds, trying to get under these cats with their phoenix's, you're dividing your attention to about 20 tasks at once, not least avoiding the terrain, trying to pop up just enough to get occasional DL Intel, but keeping radar pointed down enough you'll see targets your height, but not alert the cats, etc.

Because of this when a blip suddenly appears, you're unlikely to both be in direct wax contact to get posID so you're totally relying on this plane, currently bogie status, to have their IFF on, so that you know it's your team, because an enemy IFF, on or not, isn't going to tell you anything.

So see no IFF and knowing you're 30nm into enemy side of the map, you uncage that 120c and let it go Pitbull off the rails. perhaps another a few moments later... so focus can go back to the white streak coming overhead that's already got a red ID. Your RWR is clear, you already smell the charred ashes of the cat about to eat a 9x from the deck. You turn on the HMD...

And... Suddenly your RWR shows 18 up ahead. Noooo! The 3 kills for your team that day mean nothing, you already know the missile will hit, the seconds hurt, you see the "team kill" message and the guy who has no IFF and dead is calling you noob and so forth, the streak of the cat passes overtop, blissfully unaware that 2 threats underneath are both now gone, as you get auto kicked for good measure.

This is very difficult to police, annoying as hell, and I totally get why so many players insist on fc3 only for PvP.
I also get why servers need an auto kick bot, and for situations like firing 120s into furballs etc.

So perhaps there's a way to get "pro" modules to engage IFF with some kinda server side script within the mission, or a check somehow etc. I'm almost sure someone's gonna blast me over this and missing something obvious, so please do if I am, but if not, please check your IFF settings in PvP. I see it almost every flight, 5 greens and a yellow right near base, I check F10 map and sure enough, there's 6 guys on my team nearby, and the unknown is almost always in the f18 and it's so easy to enable, and saves you and everyone a ton of grief.
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:44 AM   #2
Keks
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Yup, IFF trolling is a known thing. Some people just dont know better tho
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:00 AM   #3
Jonne
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Maybe a script kicking / blowing up the F-18 with IFF switched off would help. Just like the loadout check some servers do. I do not know however, if this is easy to do.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:10 AM   #4
Nirvi
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That's why most rules of engagement dictate a visual ID before firing on a unknown contact
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvi View Post
That's why most rules of engagement dictate a visual ID before firing on a unknown contact
exactly this!

firing at long range at unknown targets makes you prown to such errors
auto-kicking from the server is a bit harsh - on cold war such things happen as well, but you won't get autokicked ...
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:39 PM   #6
m4ti140
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It's probably down to the current iff modelling being insufficient (and hopefully soon obsolete) but realistically there should be a way to set SAM ROE to engage all boggeys, not just confirmed hostiles. In that case an incompetent player that would take off without their transponder on would get immediately fired at.

A more elegant solution of course would be to just autokick anyone that takes off without an operating transponder (unless they don't have one or it's battle damaged while they're in the air) but this would probably require even more of a rework - we'd need the transponder modelling to be standardized across all modules, like it's done in civilian flight sims. Not sure if that is the case currently.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:42 PM   #7
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so you firing a 120c at 30nm pitbull into the sky and wondering that you kill friendlies?

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Old 09-17-2019, 02:02 PM   #8
Keks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvi View Post
That's why most rules of engagement dictate a visual ID before firing on a unknown contact
Not in a videogame where RL, uhm, mechanics and laws dont matter....
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:14 PM   #9
GGTharos
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In RL one of the airfield's SAMs could ping you on takeoff to test IFF and RWR.

ED could help here.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dFlow View Post
exactly this!

firing at long range at unknown targets makes you prown to such errors
auto-kicking from the server is a bit harsh - on cold war such things happen as well, but you won't get autokicked ...
Dude, it's absolutely ridiculous at this point. I'm flying towards the enemy with hostile nails on my 12 o'clock. I get a contact on my scope at my 12 o'clock flying towards me. Still only got hostile nails on my RWR. I do at least two IFF interrogations. If they give no response and the target stays hot on me I launch and maintain the lock until impact. Still get teamkills. What more am I supposed to do? Yeah, I could try to identify them visually but before I'm even close enough to do that I'll have five missiles up my tailpipe.
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