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Is the C3 fuel implemented?


Robin885

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I did a couple of tests in solo, to compare engine power with C3 fuel injecter installed and without, and there was no difference.

If someone has some technical informaions about this system, I'm interested aswell. It's just for my own knowledge.

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C3 in mission editor does not mean C3 injection, it means extra fuel in 3rd fuel tank behind cockpit (auxiliary fuel tank), check plane weight with it and without.

It wil NOT increase plane performance, if it is implemented, it only increase plane endurance.

 

It was discussed several times here.

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It will decrease plane performance due to shift in center of gravity.

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I should have chosen my words more carefully. I am talking about the C3 injector system, which does boost engine power. From what you say the C3 fuel option isn’t related to the injector system, thanks for that answer, but that’s not the answer to the question I had in head (my bad on that one). So is the C3 injector implemented? From the module description and the wikipedia page of the Anton, there definitely should be this system aboard that plane and it is meant to boost engine power.

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I think, if everything happens as said, it'll be for F-8 model we also will get but not for the current A-8. That's apparently what historical sources says and it's been discussed in several other threads here. But the aft fuel tank (marked C3) can be used anyway for fuel to increase endurance.

 

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I should have chosen my words more carefully. I am talking about the C3 injector system, which does boost engine power. From what you say the C3 fuel option isn’t related to the injector system, thanks for that answer, but that’s not the answer to the question I had in head (my bad on that one). So is the C3 injector implemented? From the module description and the wikipedia page of the Anton, there definitely should be this system aboard that plane and it is meant to boost engine power.

 

There has been a lengthy conversation on that topic in this thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242847

 

Basically, ED's stance is that it did not have it, thus, it is not in game.

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BMW 801 d2 runs on C3 fuel only

i wonder what was AFR at 1.65ATA with c3 injcetion engeged


Edited by grafspee

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they should have designed it to run on coal. because in 1944 all they had was synthetic oil made from coal.

 

and the allied oil campaign was quickly reducing that production to 0.

 

in fact the oil campaign is the only strategic bombing campaign to actually work.

and it only needed 2% of the bombs dropped strategically.

 

why the plane had a tank for funky fuel that was never actually used.

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they should have designed it to run on coal. because in 1944 all they had was synthetic oil made from coal.

 

and the allied oil campaign was quickly reducing that production to 0.

 

in fact the oil campaign is the only strategic bombing campaign to actually work.

and it only needed 2% of the bombs dropped strategically.

 

why the plane had a tank for funky fuel that was never actually used.

 

oil i though that germans were producing synthetic petrol. actualy they did all synthetic including synthetic rubber rubber


Edited by grafspee

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they should have designed it to run on coal. because in 1944 all they had was synthetic oil made from coal.

 

and the allied oil campaign was quickly reducing that production to 0.

 

in fact the oil campaign is the only strategic bombing campaign to actually work.

and it only needed 2% of the bombs dropped strategically.

 

why the plane had a tank for funky fuel that was never actually used.

 

 

If you refer to the C3 fuel... the plane (A8 actually had 3 tanks (2 main tanks and the additional tank behind the cockpit) for this "funky" fuel. From the A3 (BMW 801 D2) variant on, the engine could only run on C3 fuel due to it's higher compression ratio compared to the C variant of the engine. That was at the end of 1941!

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Well despite having nothing but coal, somehow the 190 managed to keep flying until the end of the war.... curious isnt it....

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  • 2 weeks later...
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According to third party, detailed development history the BMW801D2 was designed from the onset to make use of an MW system, however the MW50 kits for fighter engines were not available for installation until February 1944, which coincided with A8 production so it was the first Anton so equipped despite earlier variants using the same engine. Boosted 109s also began to appear and Reich Defence as a specific unit was formed and included Sturmbock, the hotrods of JG301 and numerous individually customised mounts.

 

Before this, in the interim Focke Wulf made use of an extra fuel injector at the supercharger inlet of the F-series (starting with the F3 IIRC, or might've been G2 first), which provided some charge coolant effect as well as a boost enrichment for modest over-boost designed for use at around 1000m altitude, in the low supercharger gear. It was to provide an extra burst of schnellbomber speed at treetop height and using it a 190F could carry around half a ton of bombs and still outpace an early P47D flying clean at 1000 metres. It was very difficult to catch on a jabo run.

 

The A8 however used the new MW50 kits with an injector mounted at the supercharger exhaust, providing greater charge coolant effect and more over-boost, plus was recommended for use anywhere under the throttle altitude and not just in the low gear. A GM-1 kit was also available which gave performance boost above throttle altitude, since the BMW altitude performance dropped off quickly above 6000m and wasn't really ideal for something like bomber interception without some sort of modification or conversion.

 

The F8 also used the same MW50 system as the A8 and equivalent G-series instead of the earlier C3 injector. The C3 inlet injector system with overboost was called "increased emergency power" (erhöhte notleistung), whilst the MW50 exhaust injector system with significant overboost was called "special emergency power" (sonder notleistung).

 

The FW190D had a similar potential for confusion, initial production had no boost system and then initially it was fitted with the C3 injector and ran on C3 fuel to bump performance by overboosting under throttle altitude. By late 44 however they were converted to B4 and used MW50 with an exhaust injector for better performance than the C3 version.

 

Initially the Ta152C prototypes used C3 burning DB603EC engines too, but the production series was to use 603LA tuned for B4/MW50.

 

Using the MW50 tank as a fuel reserve could be a myth related to confusion between the C3 injector boost system and the MW50 special boost later system, they are different systems mounted differently and there is no reason to think the C3 injector system used its own tank as there is no reason at all that it wouldn't draw off the engine fuel supply in the main fuel line. The MW50 however not only necessitated a 115 litre tank but its 150kg installed weight threw CoG out, not ideal but it had to have a separate tank because it doesn't have fuel in it. MW50 needs to be kept separated from the engine fuel system for obvious reasons.

Now here's the technical problem with it. Whilst possible as an extreme improvisation, a mere ten minutes extra fuel in that tank can't supply the engine fuel injectors. It can only supply the supercharger exhaust boost injector and how shall you be handling mixture of your intake ratio, licking your finger and sticking it in the air before shoving the throttle past its gate to activate the injector solenoid? Because remember, the engine injectors have stopped working when the main tanks are empty, so the engine not only isn't running aside from whatever your dribble out that boost injector with dead reckoning as a guide, but also there isn't any kind of operational tuning to provide any remotely stoichometric fluid for the engine to burn anyway.

So in the real world good luck with that, but on computers, yeah the option of an emergency fuel reserve, sure.

I'd speculate that it is indeed a myth which began with a simple mistake. Reshke has infamously misidentified models of aircraft he flew sorties in, Aces like other humans have fallible memories and war service is traumatic, non-stop no rest no leave for the entire war unless injured for Luftwaffe pilots. I'd suggest it is a myth which began with a German pilot misremembering technical details about boost system variants used by Focke Wulf variously 43-45. Messers just used the one, plus GM.

Unless of course an installation of an accessory system specifically switched the MW50 tank to function as a reserve fuel tank when filled with fuel instead. Then sure, no problem. Been so long since I read about warbirds day and night, working on car projects and climbing inside KJet injection, I can't recall if FW had that facility installed but it would have to be specifically for that function, with a switch that said so in the cockpit.


Edited by vanir
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A lot of words and speculations instead of learning the documents...

If you have a big jar behind the seat, a fuel pump or air pressure who prohibits you from transferring the fuel to the main tank? Or to mix it in the main tube before the engine fuel pump?

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i think with small modification rear tank can be moddified to conttain vodka to please pilot during long flights

oh another small thing bmw801 runs only on c3 fuel b4 not allowed so i think c3 fuel is implemented but not for bf-109 k4 maby some day c3+mw50 1.98ATA


Edited by grafspee

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