Su27 Keyboard Flight Controls !

Well I did a lot of racing with rFactor and iRacing (for the longest time iRacing restricted your to a wheel I believe), you need a steering wheel, just because you can control it with a keyboard doesnt make it desirable if you want to go fast and be smooth. I am sure there is a handful of people out there that can do a reasonably good job of driving with a keyboard, but I would guess the majority of serious players are using a wheel, anywhere from 20 bucks to 300. And trust me, even in the wheels there is a difference, when I upgrade from my Logitech Red to a G25, the difference was incredible... anyways...

 

The key factors here are that the majority of the customer base owns some form of flight stick and that the sim is simulating a type of control using a stick... so you are really fighting an up hill battle here. I appreciate your preference, but you are a very very small minority I think, ED would consider that in how they support different controls, if there isnt enough demand, you wont get much action.

I m sorry but If ED thinks that I m a small minority then why the keyboard flight controls where there in the first place ?

I also love to someday change to fly with a stick but please let minority like us enjoy it as we can and let others to join in this hobby. And always remember from small you get big numbers and from there you get bigger and bigger. Ignoring the small minority isn't the solution for mass marketing...

DCS is primarily a SIM, not an arcade game. While there IS support for keyboard, you can't really expect 'further development' in this area?

DCS is primarily a SIM, not an arcade game. While there IS support for keyboard, you can't really expect 'further development' in this area?

While I strongly dislike flying by keyboard, I get what FN is saying. Since ED already has implemented this control setup for keyboard in DCS, it should not be a major effort to implement it for the F-15C or Su-27.

There would not be any "further development", but rather porting that control code - at least in theory - provided that specific code is well-written OOP code.

It is up to ED to decide if it is worth it to fix or not. I hope they do, for FN and others who want to fly by keyboard.

I am not trying to speak for ED, I am only assuming based on what I see, that said, the question probably should be that, Does ED see keyboard users as a small minority and therefore support for keyboard controls are being dropped ans they upgrade FMs, or Are FMs getting so complex that keyboard controls are becoming less viable... after all its only as they add PFMs that this seems to be an issue if I understand you correctly... the Su-27 and F-15C?

PFM IS ARE OK . The FM IS OK ! I m talking about simple old keyboard method we use to have in the flanker. With that old method I can fly these PFM as much as how complex their flight model is.

If you remember with old sfm just before the flanker pfm , when pitch up and down the pitch stays there where you leave it not auto center itself then why on earth ED change the way on the PFM model to arcadish type where when you pitch and up/down it auto center itself which is bad.

So, flight model OK the way we handle it with the keyboard is not OK. BECAUSE THE PITCH IS AUTO CENTERING ITSELF :)

:):)

PFM IS ARE OK . The FM IS OK ! I m talking about simple old keyboard method we use to have in the flanker. With that old method I can fly these PFM as much ad how complex their flight model is.

 

If you remember with old sfm just before the flanker pfm , when pitch up and down the pitch stays there where you leave it not auto center itself then why on earth ED change the way on the PFM model to arcadish type where when you pitch and up/down it auto center itself which is bad.

 

So, flight model OK the way we handle it with the keyboard is not OK. BECAUSE THE PITCH IS AUTO CENTERING ITSELF :)

 

 

 

:):)

I suggest you to use the trim for flying the flanker with keyboard ... it might work. If it is slow you can try to increase keyboard repeat rate.

DCS is primarily a SIM, not an arcade game. While there IS support for keyboard, you can't really expect 'further development' in this area?

Either you are dumb and didn't understand the question or a ignorant that didn't check the 1st page what the questions really is.

Don't make stupid assumptions, nobody is saying this is arcade.

I suggest you to use the trim for flying the flanker with keyboard ... it might work. If it is slow you can try to increase keyboard repeat rate.

Its not the solution, I use keyboard trim also with old method. They just need to bring back the old method were pitch doesn't auto center itself.

Don't get angry on people who comments here... good or bad. Be sure that because of these comments your complain is now heard by ED and they will address it as it was last time.

See you in the sky :) !

While I strongly dislike flying by keyboard, I get what FN is saying. Since ED already has implemented this control setup for keyboard in DCS, it should not be a major effort to implement it for the F-15C or Su-27.

 

There would not be any "further development", but rather porting that control code - at least in theory - provided that specific code is well-written OOP code.

 

It is up to ED to decide if it is worth it to fix or not. I hope they do, for FN and others who want to fly by keyboard.

I think you understand what I m saying. I m not telling to change the flight model or anything except to change the keyboard flight control method like before.

Where the pitch control is set where we leave it not auto center itself.

Don't get angry on people who comments here... good or bad. Be sure that because of these comments your complain is now heard by ED and they will address it as it was last time.

 

See you in the sky :) !

I really hope they do. I m not going to post again on this thread as I was very clearly in detail what is the problem and the solution.

Appreciate those who understand.

I really hope they do. I'm not going to post again on this thread as I was very clearly in detail what is the problem and the solution.

Greeting fellow flyer: I used to be a Key-Board Warrior like you until I took a Prt Scr key to the knee. Subsequently moved on to a flight-stick and then HOTAS so I am accordingly qualified enough to investigate your 'complaint' for the purposes of ascertaining whether it's a bug or by design.

Have you for a moment considered that the behaviour you are experiencing/complaining about, ie

1. In the Su27 PFM when you pitch full aft back and you release the down arrow key the pitch doesn't stay there but automatically comes 50% forward. It's good it is not auto centering itself but it shouldn't also not come 50% forward, when leave it full aft back it should stay there.

is by design? And no, please DO NOT compare the SU-27PFM with the SU-25T AFM and the Mig-29 SFM. Those Flight Models have absolutely bugger-all in common with the PFM of the SU-27.

Be that as it may, I had a look and discovered that the very same behaviour is experienced with the HOTAS as well as the keyboard, ie no difference whatsoever. In both the HOTAS and keyboard the pitch comes forward 50% as per your description when the stick is pulled back max aft. Now this conclusion leads me to believe that the IFCS is maybe to blame and that this is indeed intended behaviour, the flight computer's way of keeping you, the keyboard warrior and me, the HOTAS pilot, alive.

That said, I am obviously not 100% certain that this is indeed the case and will investigate further and let you know in due course.

You can accordingly rest assured that at present and as it pertains to the SU-27PFM, that there is absolutely no difference in input depending on what peripheral you use for flying: What happens to you and your keyboard is exactly the same as what happens to me and my HOTAS so no, you are not being ignored. Your keyboard is safe and accorded the same measure of fidelity as my HOTAS: May the most nimble of finger reign supreme :joystick:

1. In the Su27 PFM when you pitch full aft back and you release the down arrow key the pitch doesn't stay there but automatically comes 50% forward. It's good it is not auto centering itself but it shouldn't also not come 50% forward, when leave it full aft back it should stay there...

Not a Bug, ie functioning as designed.

Confirmed that partial re-centering of the flight stick is a consequence of the AoA & Ny Limiter.

Either you are dumb and didn't understand the question or a ignorant that didn't check the 1st page what the questions really is.

Hey, please don't be angry with me. I just wanted to help. If I offended you in any way, I apologize.

If it helps, I can send you one of these as I heard all the ace pilots use them:

It appears FN has sunk a lot of hours into learning to fly on full difficulty with the keyboard.

Personally, I found it almost impossible, and use a joystick, but if he can actually do it - big ups to him.

The function is there in DCS to allow players to fly with the keyboard, if it's there it should (& does) work. If he thought it didn't he has as much right to report the bug as any other poster on these boards.

Taking the p*ss doesn't add anything positive to the discussion or the forum...

the problem is he tells us we are dumb and stupid because we do not understand his problem with the "not any more static stick pitch"..if he would try a Joystick he would see, that the pfm of the Su-27 needs a lot of trimming and fly this Baby is a real challenge now even with a stick..and sorry..I can not even think about trying it with the Keyboard..but so what if he want`s to...o.k.

the problem is he tells us we are dumb and stupid because we do not understand his problem with the "not any more static stick pitch"..if he would try a Joystick he would see, that the pfm of the Su-27 needs a lot of trimming and fly this Baby is a real challenge now even with a stick..and sorry..I can not even think about trying it with the Keyboard..but so what if he want`s to...o.k.

Unfortunately a lot of this thread has been keyboard vs. stick, which is sidetracking the issue, and unhelpful.

The real question is whether the keyboard controls (of the virtual flight stick specifically) are consistent between aircraft - if it isn't, then there is a real bug, imho. If difference FN is experiencing is caused by how each aircraft responds to the stick input, then it isn't a bug, imho. ED may consider adding keyboard helpers in the latter case, but that would be "additional development".

 

The real question is whether the keyboard controls (of the virtual flight stick specifically) are consistent between aircraft - if it isn't, then there is a real bug, imho. If difference FN is experiencing is caused by how each aircraft responds to the stick input, then it isn't a bug, imho. ED may consider adding keyboard helpers in the latter case, but that would be "additional development".

Again, the behaviour is a design feature as confirmed in post #40 above.

No Bug.

We can all thank FlankerNation for negative repping everyone who doesn't agree with him

With the oculus DK2 on my head I am trying to get rid of the keyboard as much as possible.

But if you can fly with just the keyboard and are ready to put you hands int he dirt to keep up with your idiosyncrasy maybe you might want to consider using this kind of tools :

http://www.autohotkey.com/

Again, the behaviour is a design feature as confirmed in post #40 above.

 

No Bug.

Thank you 159th_Viper for confirming it.

BUT :) I agree with you only 50%.

I can now understand the partial auto-centering as it there for safety. What I cannot understand is this and please can also explain that:

A. If the real Flanker pilot pulls back the stick full Aft and the fly-by wire force the pilot hand with the stick to partial auto-center itself ?

B. You Sir, have professional stick I m guessing. So, does the DCS Sim force feedback your stick to partial auto-center itself ?

Now, I m not comparing Su25t flight model with Su27 PFM but lets discuss how Su25t for a min. Although currently we can do a full aft pull back on the su25t but with AFM it has also limitations as I don't always use a full aft pull back unless in some safety speeds i m in otherwise the plane start to spin or stall. But it helps sometime to hold that pitch full aft back for a short while where in Su27 PFM you have to press and hold the down arrow key. In Dog fight its hard to hold down one key and press other key at the same time or sometimes it doesn't work where you to press 3 keys at the same time.

Solution (I m suggesting so please hold the horses):

So in Su27 PFM I want that Full aft stick hold and not auto-partial center it self because in Sim I can sense it visually when the plane started to roll so I can I can push it forward manually.

Please explain.

I am having trouble leaving this thread open, especially if this line of comments continues. Please be adult about your discussions or dont discuss at all.

I think you shouldn't warn me because I m not the one who started with sarcasm and misleading this thread to what its actually about.

I hope you will be fair and give warning to those also who are sarcastically misleading this thread.

And yes I do apologize to those who I gave tit for tat answer :)