Civil Aircraft in DCS? - A personal résumé and essay - ED Forums


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Old 12-11-2017, 02:02 PM   #1
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Post Civil Aircraft in DCS? - A personal résumé and essay

(I'm new to the forums, I hope this is the right section for this topic)

Fellow DCS players,

I know that you probably don't want to hear this again and again, but I think that DCS could be a great environment for civil simulation.
Shots fired, so please allow me to explain it:
(What follows is just my personal opinion as a DCS player, who is flying "just for fun")

Eagle Dynamics simulation engine allows for highly realistic flight models, some of the most accurate in the flight simulation world. When looking at the Nevada and Strait of Hormuz terrain modules,
they are huge and include multiple cities modeled in an outstanding level of detail. Considering current simulators, DCS combines both accuracy of simulation with pure eyecandy.
While I agree that some maps might be rather small for fast fixed wing aircraft, a helicopter ride between two airfields can take several hours.
Back in 2011 Bohemia Interactive released "Take On Helicopters" that featured a 3800 km² piece of Seattle metropolitan area. ( ).
I've used this simulation for a while myself, but the flight models aren't even close to DCS World. TKOH is based on the rather old ArmA2 engine, so we're not speaking about eyecandy here...
Then there are several other simulators (P3D, FSX, etc.) in which you can sometimes even fly to every location in the world. But when you arrive there, well, you might be disappointed by the way it looks.
These simulators aren't focused on looking great or entertaining the pilots/players, the main intention is to simulate an aircraft in a high level of technical detail.
Some simulations even use flight models that are inferior to those used in DCS, but the whole point is that you can train specific procedures and tasks you would encounter as a real life student pilot/ pilot.
So therefore, I might refer to these simulators as "educational software" (please take it with a grain of salt).

And then we have DCS World.
We all know how great this "game" looks and how accurate and detailed the flight models are. We have maps of several hundred thousand square kilometers,
some (DLC) maps include famous cities with great architecture and landscape. Comparing the graphics, DCS stands out from the whole flight simulation branch.
The flight models are at eye level with the competitors, most of the time they are even superior.

Everyone in the DCS community is asking for more modules, more aircraft, more maps, more features. And at the same time, we're constantly nagging for faster releases, faster bugfixing and faster updates.
Understand that DCS developers are rather small. Go to the flight manual of your favourite module and read the credits. Sometimes you'll see twice as many testers as actual company members.
To provide updates/ new content faster, every business has to grow. And to grow, they need revenue. As Eagle Dynamics themselves stated in their recent open letter ( ),
the development of the P-51D was twice as cost-efficient as the A-10C.
Let me compare this to a car manufacturer, the Volkswagen Group. Volkswagen owns brands like Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti. But the real money is made with the affordable brands like VW, Seat, Skoda, Audi.
Without the "everyman car" brands behind them, these luxury manufacturers couldn't exist. The Christen Eagle II and EDs Yak-52 were developed for internal reasons and then released to the public as a bonus.
A bonus for us, the players. And a bonus for the developers. Buying these (civil) modules actually benefits the development of new combat aircraft. With the income generated by these modules,
the developer can hire new programmers and artists, thus speed up the release schedule.

What would be so wrong having civil aircraft and helicopters in the game?
I assume that there would be five types of players in the community, if ED decides to open the doors for civil modules:

A) The milsim players, that only fly combat aircraft
B) The milsim players, that fly civil aircraft for fun
C) The civil sim players, that fly combat aircraft for fun (and might become members of group B in the future)
D) The civil sim players, that only fly civil aircraft.
E) The "I just enjoy flying" players, that use all aircraft in both combat, aerobatics and civil scenarios
Group A,B,C and E are already existing and there is a peaceful and harmonic coexistence. Group C+E will usually be found on the aerobatics servers, while A+B populate the combat servers.
Speaking of the supposed "Group D", we would either find them on the aerobatics servers, or on civil sim servers with missions created specifically for their likings.
And before someone says "this will split the community" - no, but it offers plenty of room for an expansion. Highly accurate combat flight simulation is a rather small niche, the market for civil simulations seems to be much bigger.

With civil aircraft included in the outstanding DCS environment and the strong companies and communities supporting it, we can attract many players of both civil and combat simulation.
This could make DCS the most attractive platform for 3rd party developers.

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Old 12-11-2017, 02:10 PM   #2
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couldn't read whole post but for me, civil planes are always welcomed
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:16 PM   #3
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Thank you for this optimistic post.
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:22 PM   #4
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Other point as, if civilian aircraft has banned by the community, the 3rd parties can turn to other platforms outside DCS World. A civilian aircraft has more easy to build (no combat systems), and get "easy" cash to build more "military" aircraft's.

Some examples:
- Yak-52 by ED
- Christen Eagle II by M-3
- Polychop with a question about a "civilian" Gazelle.

The stament of DCS World has only by "military" has very "poor" actually on a competitive market as the simulator world.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:52 PM   #5
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I read often that civilian aircraft can only be a good thing to DCS. But it's still just speculation. Civilian aircraft are actually needed for combat scenarios, because DCS is not a large scale war simulator implying 100% military equipment yet (in other words, no dynamic campaign).
How DCS can face the other historic actors is still a mystery, no one can predict a success. But I'm sure it will perform poorly for years because it's not just about the quality of aircraft modeling, but it's about the environment. Things like proper ATC, theaters, weather, multiplayer, all of this in the global form and size. Many of us will die of old age before the day when DCS will catch up with the others.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:17 PM   #6
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Given that - at least in the multiplayer environment, the most flown servers are all aerobatics and unarmed, I'd say civil airframes have a bright future in DCS World.

The bottom line is the bottom line. If they sell, we'll get more of them. If they fail to sell, they'll fall by the wayside.

The problem with forums is that we hear from the noisy minority in a lot of cases.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:31 PM   #7
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I welcome civilian aircraft as well but they have to be the right ones. In my opinion, the Christen Eagle II is not the best choice. It is an obscure and unique aircraft that may only appeal to a small minority in a community that is already small and unique. If civilian aircraft are to be successful in DCS, a foundation of some of the most famous and popular aircraft must be made before developing more unique aircraft. For example, an aircraft such as the Cessna 172 makes a lot more sense. It is famous, known by all, widely used in all countries and it can be utilized by so many people for anything from flight training to just flying around. It is the most produced aircraft of all time and I would imagine that the data needed to develop it is widely available. If time and effort is going to be taken away from the development of military aircraft to develop civilian aircraft, it has to be worth it. An aircraft like the Cessna 172 in DCS would bring much more people into this sim and potentially provide a tremendous amount of revenue. If ED is changing directions and looking at civilian aircraft, maybe they can recruit some developers from others flight sims in order to get their products into DCS.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:33 PM   #8
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The lack of focus is concerning. There needs to be an effort to keep things focused on appropriate aircraft for theaters and as opponents. DCS is becoming an unfocused airplane sandbox. I'm surprised that ED doesn't restrict what can be developed in order to see that it is in line with the overall picture.

But, I'll take what's available when it's released. I love all aircraft, so I'll just keep buying and flying what they give us, whatever it is.

Look on the bright side: if you're really bothered by stuff that gets released, you can use them for gunnery practice.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Oubaas View Post
Look on the bright side: if you're really bothered by stuff that gets released, you can use them for gunnery practice.
You don't even have to purchase them to do that with the AI.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:24 PM   #10
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I welcome civil aircrafts for DCS
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