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Old 06-14-2019, 06:38 PM   #481
dimitriov
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Well, actually, I don't know for the Ka-52 optics.

But you have to see that the real shkval is an old system. I would be very surprised that it would be able to track a target from more than 6 km. Is it modeled accurately ? Well if it was, you would have loads of issues using it because of how luminosity variates during the day. There would be parasites all across the screen if it's too dark, and night would look like a winter storm ^^ So this part... Well, I really don't know and don't ask them too much because if they take it seriously you're going to get the real thing. Question is : Do you really want to get the real made in CCCP electronic system from 1985 ? ^^

So we would need for a FLIR. But well, sincerely on this, not even on a realistic or not way of thinking, I'm well used to the Shkval limitations so it doesn't disturb be a lot. Still understand that it is not the case for everyone. But I analyse your issues with air targets as a lack of practice because during my flight "career" in PVP I shot down many many helicopters, fighters, CAS planes. One example is an F-15C, he missed me on the first pass, went above me, I took 30 degrees pitch, locked, shot 2 vikhrs which hit him right before I started falling backward. Incredibly, he was intact... until I saw him crash, I killed his pilot ^^ The whole action lasted for about 10 seconds. You have to train to be able to react, as fast as this without mistake, this is the real point I think. I train often for such thing, even asking to my squad fighters pilot to fight me. I spend most of the fight time having a lock on them, which is not so simple on mach 1 Mirage 6 km away. So well, IMO, for this, train.

Still a FLIR would indeed be a nice addition.

Oh my god but what am I saying ? IT WOULDN'T BE REALISTIC BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE IT ON GOOGLE ! SATAN !

:p

Nicolas

Last edited by dimitriov; 06-14-2019 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:26 PM   #482
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Nice dimitrov keep killing fighters for the both of us
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:27 PM   #483
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I suppose it's important to point out something to both sides of the debate...

To those who are pushing hard for a 100% "as realistic as we can prove" simulation of a real existing KA-50, and to those pushing for a little bit of fuzzy grey area that will give us a better, more useful KA-50...

As I understand there will be a switch in the ME that will allow or dis-allow either version... or at least the "ED" version. I totally understand the sim purist point of view... For sure... but I also see why people would want something that's an upgrade. Real or not. It's something new to play with and something more powerful to go blow stuff up with. What's not to like? If you're into the sim side of it... Use the old shark and/or don't load Igla's or the third pylon... everyone wins. I mean... I get that "choosing" not to load something up is different from it being a restriction, but seriously...

You're not flying a helicopter.

There are already quite a number of concessions you're making towards reality to just get in a sim and take off.

I say let us have our cake and eat it too .
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:23 AM   #484
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I'm a hardcore 'want realism' but I have no illusions that many compromises aren't made here both obvious and subtle. As I've said before, if people REALLY want the real deal, they should enlist, because that's the only way they'll get it. DCS, BMS, insert game, they aren't 1 to 1 replicas. Just the reality. Voice an opinion, sure, but it's not sky falling serious ) Kamov with Igla is no worse than A-10 with nerfed engines and mavericks. Tis only a game.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:49 AM   #485
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Yep. I see it as a win / win situation.


So, as to the Shkval, I guess it's somewhat realistic to 1980's standard. FLIR would be SOOOO nice.



x
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:36 PM   #486
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Quote:
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After playing for a few hours today, I am reminded of how bad the EO is. And I wonder is it supposed to be this bad? Is this how bad Russian EO is? I doubt that.
You can get a lock well to a helicopters or aircrafts, if you lock on specific part of them.

Like a tail boom or a engine. But that you can't lock on the whole aircraft makes it stupid.

So, an aircraft against clear sky (extremely perfect contrasts) and no lock.
But from same distance if you can lock to tiny detail in them by using Shkval smallest gate size, boom you are locked!

What the Shkval should do is just get lock off the strongest contrasts and track the target shape by comparing the image to the previous ones and locked.

Like example how does 500Kr EO targeting work, comparing target image and surrounding while tracking, and many other cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles.

As Vikhr are just dumb missiles, cheap to make. All logic is in Shkval.
At least they would have made Shkval stabilized so you can without lock launch and aim, like they do anyways for training purpose.

You can see same for a few rare videos about Shkval, as for newer from Mi-28N etc.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:43 PM   #487
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I was talking about a KA-52 data linking a target to a KA-50 at night, the KA-50 pointing at that target and killing it without ever actually seeing it.
I wouldn't trust any datalink that much to target anything else than a nuclear bomb or other area effect bombs.

Idea is that datalink will get you to 100 meet area, where you can find it visually.

This is same thing as with any western "smart bombs", they do not hit as marketed in most cases unless it is a laser guided and not first generation.
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:45 PM   #488
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Yup absolutely, the data-link accuracy is limited by the PrPNK INU one, and it is about 50m in best scenario.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:37 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
You can get a lock well to a helicopters or aircrafts, if you lock on specific part of them.

Like a tail boom or a engine. But that you can't lock on the whole aircraft makes it stupid.

So, an aircraft against clear sky (extremely perfect contrasts) and no lock.
But from same distance if you can lock to tiny detail in them by using Shkval smallest gate size, boom you are locked!

LOL! Yeah, I've noticed that! Shrinking the gate as small as you can seems to get a better lock. Big gate around the heli = no lock!


Shkval is really screwed up. Maybe they don't want to have to come up with a real contrast system yet, but at least they could make it better than this.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:05 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by dimitriov View Post
Well, actually, I don't know for the Ka-52 optics.

But you have to see that the real shkval is an old system. I would be very surprised that it would be able to track a target from more than 6 km. Is it modeled accurately ?
There shouldn't be any problems in tracking at those ranges up to the specs of 10km range.

If the field of view is correct in the DCS and the Shkval tracking gate size, then there shouldn't be problem.

What I would like to know is the tracking function and TV adjustment controls (contrasts, brightness, gamma) as of those are in the tracking loop, then you adjust the Shkval for the tracking with those screen adjustments as well as TV itself.

The Shkval wasn't bad one, tracking worked well, but problem is lack of other features that Su-25T had like laser tracking (not so sure about that as some have written that LST is in all Shkval), and automatic targeting via programming for target area and lack of FLIR.

The is a video of the old Shkval performing automatic laser spotting and locking and off-center targeting too.
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