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Old 06-14-2019, 06:14 AM   #471
martinistripes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weta43 View Post
This thread has been a classic example of how the internet works.

2 people repeat over and over (truly ad nauseum) their own mistaken belief that:

1/ The Ka-50 only ever existed as an experimental precursor to the Ka-52 that was dropped by the Russian military because of its single cockpit (despite being repeatedly told that there are 15 - 16 examples in service today - Does the fact there were only ever 21 B2 built mean they were never taken into production ?)
&
2/ The Ka-50 at some stage had a variant with 3 pylons - despite having absolutely no evidence of this beyond a failure of imagination regarding an unexplained switch position label in the cockpit.


& eventually so many people have read what they say that their statements become evidence of their own truth, and a myth begins....

By E.D.'s own admission, a Ka-50 with 3 pylons or with mounted Igla is an imaginary airplane. Not a little known experimental version of the Ka-50, just an exercise in imagination.

I don't understand how a community so nit picky about details, and that can argue so strenuously against flight aids as 'cheats', are so happy that E.D. have decided to build a fantasy version of the aircraft because it will make flying it so much more fun....

It's not a simulation of something if the thing its simulating is imaginary, and a 3 pylon Ka-50 with IGLA is an imaginary aircraft (either something Chizh just wanted to do 'cause he liked the idea, or the 'least' imaginary thing E.D. could think of to add the existing module to tempt people into buying another version & so fund the upgrade on the existing Black Shark module).
Exactly.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:27 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3WA View Post
Guys like you, I don't even bother reading your posts.

Of course not, that's why you replied


" Can't even lock up a slow heli against a clear sky." ......



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Old 06-14-2019, 06:34 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by 3WA View Post
Yeah, people like me just want something more modern. And that EO just grinds on my nerves. Can't even lock up a slow heli against a clear sky. 1980's tech and realistic? Or just badly simulated?


And when you've got 4 AH-1Ws coming at you and your wingie, you need to be able to lock fast! :p


Beginning to realize there are just too many problems with it. Too much of it. Burning out. Think I'm going to take this to the Russian thread where the ED people seem to be.
Why are you trying to dogfight attack helis in the first place, especially ones that can equip sidewinders? Your vikhrs... vs their sidewinders. One is a poorly suited improv, the other is purpose built... you're surprised it's inferior? Really?

Also, you should watch the recent online helo competitions. People seem to use them fine there Skillz, maybe?
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:56 AM   #474
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Haven't flown KA-50 for years but set up a quick mission approaching 4x AH-1W's. You can easy get a lock at 7-8km, i waxed two of them while they were hot. The other two started going cold (turned away), i waxed the 3rd at a perpendicular angle, then the forth while in retreat at 4km.




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Old 06-14-2019, 07:06 AM   #475
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One things for sure it will be a sad day if ED implement a 3rd pylon on a KA-50. Might as well put AIM-120's on the F/A-18's wingtips just to please people.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:13 AM   #476
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3WA, i can post the miz file if you would like to practice. Trick with locking air targets is reduce the tracking gates to the smallest size, this is just the habit i been in but from memory opening the tracking gates gave me lock up issues.


Switching weapon mode to manual will also be an advantage especially if the targets hot/ high closure speed.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:29 AM   #477
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Since the Igla missiles seem to be planned to be included in the updated variant (IIRC), I wonder if they can be mounted asymmetrically on one of the outer pylons together with Vikhr missiles? E.g. Like the early Ka-52 was shown with R-73 and Vikhrs (although, that was just a static display so doesn't prove anything).

In that case, the outer pylons weapon selection option would I guess select the Vikhr missiles and the A2A option would select the Iglas.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:18 AM   #478
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I don't know sincerely if it never was done for the 3 pylons.

Understand my point :

Perhaps during the Ka-52 developement, as they intended to put a 3 pylons wing, they decided to start testing this configuration with a Kamov-50 ? After all, it's only changing the wings and the Ka-50 was in the end a bit made for this kind of things : testing features for the next KA-52 ?

I mean, it is not because you don't find photos on google that this never existed. I sincerely don't know and ED has better sources than the ones you'll ever get on your side...

Too, Kamov-50 production was to be started again in the 2000', perhaps in this production version was a 3 pylon wing planned, which would make sense for maintenance purpose as both Ka-50 and 52 would share as many components as possible ? Actually, it's quite obvious for me that they would have taken such decision.

My personal opinion is that probably a 3 pylons wing ka-50 never flew, but it probably started to be produced or was used for ground testing in the factory, and right in the middle of the production they decided to directly swap the frames to ka-52 variant.

So well, if it was like this, it probably wouldn't be realistic to see it fly, but the only lacking thing was some factory time to get it in the airs... Because the aircraft itself would fly very well, even with 10 pylons ^^ ^^

Ah, and a last thing, tbh with you : Probably you on the ED forums think that it is not realistic and it's not normal. But for most users, the famous "silent majority", it is a very much welcome update, sincerely, whoever I talk to who flies it doesn't say "bah not realistic", he says "this is exactly what I needed and hoped for", and it is very egoist of you to ask for it to do not be made like this, because you represent your sole opinion, and usually only the angry people make noise. (Don't take it as a lack of respect, it's simply an empiric truth that mostly unhappy people post on ED forums :p)

And you know, you can think if you want that DCS modules are very realistic etc. Truth is that for kinda every relatively complex modules, there are simplifications, differences, or even sometimes things invented. Look at the D2M on the M2K as a good example. It simply never existed on the French 2000-C. Still I don't see people thinking "Oh my god the day they decided to put this, we lost something". They are pretty happy to have it actually. Same for being able to carry bombs and missiles or rockets at the same time. It never was able to do it because of its computer limitations. And I'm 100% sure you could find such thing for the F/A-18, the F-14, the Gazelle (For this one I'm extremely sure) etc.

It's only a game guys. I understand that it's a passion for you, as well as for me, but not everyone lives his passion the same way with the same philosophy. Does it mean that there are the "true" simmers and the "false" ones ?

@Dudikoff : I don't think. The aircraft you're talking about was set up like this for "show" purpose. It's quite usual during conventions and meetings so the customer can directly see all the available weaponry. A very funny example was the Eurofighter who flew for an entire decade during meetings with weaponry it couldn't even release ^^ I don't know after all if a Ka-52 can be asymetric (although even on exercise they never are, at least with 2 types of weapons, fuel tanks are a different thing), but I'm pretty sure that the Kamov PrPnk cannot handle such configuration because it is limited, just like the M2K above. And finally, well, if you get 6 pylons, you're a strange guy if you manage to still need for an asymetric configuration lol

Nicolas

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Old 06-14-2019, 12:34 PM   #479
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Well said Dimitriov!
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:22 PM   #480
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Yes, well said Dimitriov. Probably one of the better posts I've seen yet. Agree with pretty much everything you said. I've been flying sims since before Falcon III. There's ALWAYS going to be a few things that can't be quite confirmed, or were probably an educated guess. Because otherwise, the sim's gonna suck. And your going to have a lot of non-functional systems. And furthermore, those who don't want changes on the Shark, aren't going to have to pay for them. So pretty much win/win.


I have to admit though, the biggest thing I have taken away from the debates here, is that my focus in change has been shifted by the arguments of others. I now think the main problem of this copter is the simulation of the Shkval. It's pretty bad. We really need to question ED in whether it is being accurately simulated. And if so, would it have been upgraded by now, like the wings? Is it this bad on the Ka-52? I can't lock up helicopters that are black outlined against a clear light blue sky, at 8km. Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock, every few seconds. Nothing. And it seems to vary wildly. Sometimes, the Shkval does ok. Others, like above. Asked this in the Russian forum. 86 views but now answers. Probably because my Russian is pretty horrible. :p Though I put in English as well. Hoping for an answer from Chizh or one of the other producers, as they don't ever seem to come into the English forums.


That, and we really need FLIR. There has already been the Ka-50N, Ka-50sh. And I don't want to pay for a Black Shark 4 to get it later.


Love your "donation sig", Dudikoff. Maybe I should get one of those too. Then I can just buy ED.

Last edited by 3WA; 06-14-2019 at 06:34 PM.
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