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Upgrading from Intel 3930K to 9900K. Worth it?


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I had considerably less to none when doing it your way with taskmanager and NOT with any latency checker. That thing alone produced iirc 87k hpf's, yugg.

 

 

Mine runs pretty much w/o any hpf's. But that was 1803 and another 10 install, older drivers everywhere etc.. I am not sure how much this is still valid as with every new win10 and Intel drivers + Bios ( hello Meltdown and Spectre bug fixes in PCH !! love you too !! ) makes performance go south.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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I had considerably less to none when doing it your way with taskmanager and NOT with any latency checker. That thing alone produced iirc 87k hpf's, yugg.

 

 

Mine runs pretty much w/o any hpf's. But that was 1803 and another 10 install, older drivers everywhere etc.. I am not sure how much this is still valid as with every new win10 and Intel drivers + Bios ( hello Meltdown and Spectre bug fixes in PCH !! love you too !! ) makes performance go south.

 

I appreciate you sharing the experience. Of course I won't know for certain until I plug the sticks in but I'm feeling a bit more confident that the increase in total ram is going to show a different behavior than what I'm seeing now.

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Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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You will see a difference once you push it into heavy MP and such, pretty sure you will ;)

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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@Headwrap has the RAM arrived yet?

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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@Headwrap has the RAM arrived yet?

 

It was scanned 3 hours away.. so I might get it tomorrow. But it's scheduled for the 20th :P FargBum.

Spoiler

Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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Oh and glad the GPU was already sorted I may have glazed over that bit. :music_whistling:

 

 

I see the 8700K has a max memory bandwidth, 41.6 GB/s it would be interesting to see what your memory bandwidth is before and after 16/32GB.

 

If you get stuck turning off virtual memory just reboot windows a couple of times let it sort out what memory strategy it's going to use.

 

Can you turn off that annoying 'start all the apps when it restarts" thing?

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Got my new ram.. aside from struggling to seat it underneath my aio hoses and what not 2nd kit works like a charm. HOwever - I'm not really seeing any difference in DCS performance.

 

It's like DCS wants to use more pagefile than it does ram. I lowered my P.D to 1.3 on the odyssey and it seems to have aleviated my dropped frame issue, not that it makes sense to me considering i'm not maxing out my VRAM and otherwise maintain 45fps.

 

 

What I do notice is going from map to cockpit seems to happen faster. I'm sure I'll appreciate the extra ram flying DDCS or Blueflag or something tho.

 

Might disable the page file for a bit to see what happens there but I kind of wish DCS would just use the ram rather than the page file without having to attempt to force it.

Spoiler

Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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DCS is asking “windows” for memory and it gets it.

 

it’s the “windows” operating system that decides the best way to manage ram and the page file and everything else going on in your computer. that is what the job of an “operating system” is. to balance and manage and secure resources.

 

there is nothing DCS can do about it.

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^ Exactly, if you do turn of the page file off do try rebooting the computer a couple of times making sure there are no apps being "restarted automatically" between boots. Then try DCS/VR after a clean boot.

 

For me basic free flight mission uses maybe 6 to 8 GB RAM/ 6GBVRAM and MP 11 + GB of RAM and 11ish GB of VRAM.

 

It's very hard to get DCS to use more RAM with the new memory model used I remember before the memory management was implemented it was common to see 18~20+GB of RAM used.

 

Keep in mind the aim (well for me) is to ensure not only DCS has enough RAM but also the OS and what ever other apps you may have running has enough system RAM to work without needing to page stuff away and worse not have to swap stuff (um data) between page file and RAM.

 

@Headwarp. did you get a chance to verify your memory speed? And if so are you nearly saturating the i/o buss?

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Try playing with the "pre-load" slider in DCS settings. That seems to influence RAM usage.

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD.

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^ Exactly, if you do turn of the page file off do try rebooting the computer a couple of times making sure there are no apps being "restarted automatically" between boots. Then try DCS/VR after a clean boot.

 

For me basic free flight mission uses maybe 6 to 8 GB RAM/ 6GBVRAM and MP 11 + GB of RAM and 11ish GB of VRAM.

 

It's very hard to get DCS to use more RAM with the new memory model used I remember before the memory management was implemented it was common to see 18~20+GB of RAM used.

 

Keep in mind the aim (well for me) is to ensure not only DCS has enough RAM but also the OS and what ever other apps you may have running has enough system RAM to work without needing to page stuff away and worse not have to swap stuff (um data) between page file and RAM.

 

@Headwarp. did you get a chance to verify your memory speed? And if so are you nearly saturating the i/o buss?

 

Yeah ram is running at 3200mhz. Did some stress testing. The ram works fine.

 

As far as "DCS" having nothing to do with it according to the poster above.. the development of the memory management module and experiences like fragbums says DCS has something to do with how it handles memory.

 

And again.. the only real surprise to me was that when running dcs, my system is using more page file than ram even after the upgrade, despite having more than enough ram to cover the swap file + physical ram usage being used at the time of looking . It's simply an observation not a request for lessons in personal computing. That's not directed at Fragbum, regardless of his post being quoted. Still.. I do find myself curious as to what DCS might be storing in page files as opposed to loading it onto ram and how that could effect the program.


Edited by Headwarp
Spoiler

Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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ED may have added their own memory manager to reuse object memory for one object, for another object, but that would be within their own process.

 

the DCS process itself, is a standard windows process and lives or dies by the rules of the operating system. you can’t escape it. one of the primary jobs of an OS is encapsulation and isolation.

 

there seems to be a lot of misconceptions in these threads. for those who want to know more i would urge you to read some of articles on MSDN and virtual memory operating systems in general.

 

things have come a long ways since Windows 3.1 and classic Mac OS

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ED may have added their own memory manager to reuse object memory for one object, for another object, but that would be within their own process.

 

the DCS process itself, is a standard windows process and lives or dies by the rules of the operating system. you can’t escape it. one of the primary jobs of an OS is encapsulation and isolation.

 

there seems to be a lot of misconceptions in these threads. for those who want to know more i would urge you to read some of articles on MSDN and virtual memory operating systems in general.

 

things have come a long ways since Windows 3.1 and classic Mac OS

 

Whatever the case.. DCS causes extremely large swap files in windows, where unused ram is present. It's pretty unique just due to the nature of the beast that is DCS and its ability to hog resources. There's not another title in my library that calls for swap files this large. Not to mention by the time I've loaded an MP server 17million page faults have occured and that number grows about 20k-150k per poll from task manager until DCS is closed. That's quite a bit of drive access happening. Many reads and writes. I don't see other programs with hard faults in the ranges that I'm seeing with DCS either, much less the total amount and rate of page faults.

 

I'll probably see the benefits of the additional ram in large MP servers but, my observation is simply that more ram didn't amount to less page file usage in DCS. And a shortage of ram was apparently not my issue. I still get a brief SteamVR loading screen for no apparent reason at least, in certain missions while in flight. Could even be module specific. More to do there. I'll probably take that discussion to the VR issues forum, now that there's no hardware left to buy to rule out pc specs.


Edited by Headwarp
Spoiler

Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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Upgrading from Intel 3930K to 9900K. Worth it?

 

keep in mind that any disk access period will result in page faults. even with 64GB of ram, if you load a file into notepad you will get hundreds of page faults. load the file again and you will get hundreds more. it’s the way virtual memory works. it doesn’t necessary mean anything is wrong.

 

there is also the difference between hard faults and soft faults but i’m not going to get into that here. also keep in mind that task manager doesn’t distinguish between problem faults and no problem faults, so it’s not a good indicator of an issue.

 

why are you worried about the page file and page faults, anyway? you can’t change how Windows works.

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keep in mind that any disk access period will result in page faults. even with 64GB of ram, if you load a file into notepad you will get hundreds of page faults. load the file again and you will get hundreds more. it’s the way virtual memory works. it doesn’t necessary mean anything is wrong.

 

there is also the difference between hard faults and soft faults but i’m not going to get into that here. also keep in mind that task manager doesn’t distinguish between problem faults and no problem faults, so it’s not a good indicator of an issue.

 

why are you worried about the page file and page faults, anyway? you can’t change how Windows works.

 

 

Decided not to go with my long winded response to this....but to state I've been using different phrases regarding hard faults and page faults because of the fact that yes, page faults refer to "hard faults" and "soft faults" which using the resource monitor you can see when a program is causing hard faults. The only real reason anybody's still talking page faults in this thread is because of you :P I simply explored one avenue of DCS performance and noted that virtual and physical memory usage remains about the same between 16 and 32GB on the one mission I was regularly testing. I have no idea why you keep trying to school me in what a page fault, hard fault, or soft fault is.


Edited by Headwarp
Spoiler

Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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