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Military vs Civil Simulation


borchi_2b

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Do to the fact that the discussion started,

would you like to have more civil planes in DCS?

Could the name DCS still work if it could replace simulation titels like FSX?

 

What are your thoughts on this.

 

I myself think that the civil sector is a huge market and as it was posted, for helicopters there are a lot of missions planable in a civil enviroment.

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I think if ED can build a "whole World" engine on a future version of EGDE engine, can be enter the civil environment under DCS: W, but not sure if DCS need change your name to adapt them to a new target.

 

Of course, to "replace" FSX and similar, ED need improve some characteristics into the sim, as better weather environment, a "realistic" AI air and ground and sea traffic (if ground and naval environment coming into DCS: W), a better AI ATC, and some capability to get "pilot-able" ATCs into the simulator.

 

And of course improve the dedicate servers to build "living world".

 

About civilian aircrafts, helos....... vehicles, ships and trains?. not sure, surely require a complete reconstruction and improvements of the engine to turn them on a "acceptable" environment to get "civilian" 3rd parties into them.

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It would be interesting to see, but if the intent is to bring more people over from FSX and other civil sims, I am not sure how well that would work.

 

There are a LOT of differences between the things we look for in combat sims and what hard-core civil sim pilots look for in a sim. Long flights between far flung airports, civil AI traffic, and realistic scenery are all things more important to a civil sim.

 

We could add tons of civil aircraft to DCS, but they would not be useful for much as the maps aren't yet large enough.

 

What I believe would work better is picking civil aircraft that have been converted for combat. Heavies like the E-3, tankers, and Military transports. Cessnas converted for COIN operations. Then add some civil skins. This way you'll have something more useful to do while flying your 707 in circles, and when you get tired of hopping from airfield to airfield in a Cessna you can strap some weapons on it and take out some insurgents.

 

Later on when we have more maps, and possibly a way of having the map change dynamically as you fly off one theater and into another, we might be able to pull people from civil sims.

 

That's my 2 cents, anyway, FWIW.

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If you think that you can make good and interesting missions for civil aircrafts why not to develop them.Otherwise it's better for us to make millitary jetfighters (not trainers please) like tornado or ww2 airplanes, your choice.

 

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I welcome any development in dcs, regardless of nation or purpose. But with the point of the DCS name in mind, since you brought it up, perhaps a good first step would be modules of aircraft that are used in both civilian and military roles and perhaps some military utilarian aircraft. This compromise would form the bridge towards true civil aviation.

 

Some fancy flying to get those supplies to that airbase near the front, evading enemy contact and getting in and out in one piece sounds fun to me. Also fighting fires, search and rescue, photoflight, vip transport, para or supply drops, all examples of missions both military and civilian aircraft could perform. There are bound to be several types and models that have the best of both worlds.

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I do not support civilian modules over any potential combat aircraft. The only circumstance that I would have no qualms about a company doing a civilian module would be if that company would never have done a military aircraft even if given the opportunity. If companies like those want to make modules, more power to them, but under no circumstances should a military module have to wait for a moment so that efforts can be spent on civilian aircraft.

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I think the name Digital Combat Simulator is somewhat significant.

Just my view.

If I wanted to fly civilian aircraft would use P3D or FSX.

Same reason I dont purchase trainers.

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I think the name Digital Combat Simulator is somewhat significant.

Just my view.

If I wanted to fly civilian aircraft would use P3D or FSX.

Same reason I dont purchase trainers.

 

DCS seems to have better flight modelling than FSX and P3D though. Much better. Ergo, if civil modules were available in DCS, I'd probably pick the DCS version over the others.

 

That said, while I'd certainly welcome their development, I don't think I'd purchase a completely civil fixed wing module. I'd be tempted by something like DC-3 as it's a shorthaul and quite versatile, but an actual jet liner like a 747? Doubtful.

Even then, I'd probably only be interested in a split package with a militarised and civil variant, but the latter wouldn't see much use.

 

Civil helicopters are potentially more interesting due to the wider scope of activities that can be done. They've got such a wide range of uses that I could see it working, especially if functionality around SAR was intoduced.

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I am not personally too interested in general aviation, but would probably dip into a module or two.

 

I think DCS in it's current state, or with some improvements, can foster bush flying type of missions, as well as some assorted helicopter missions already. May be also short haul cargo with relatively small aircraft. Also, obviously aerobatics / airrace stuff. Stuff like SAR, firefighting, precise delivery, high altitude stuff can all be fun and quite challenging with helicopters.

 

Personally, I would be interested in an aerobatics plane, may be two. Idea of civilian aviation in DCS itself is good. But people who mainly fly that kind of sims look for some selling points where DCS isn't as strong as dedicated GA sims like P3D, FSX or X-Plane, stuff like ginormous maps, many terrain options, very good weather modeling, solid ATC and random air traffic etc. So not sure if people more interested in those sims will flock to DCS.

 

May be, there is merit to at least doing civilian versions of aircraft which also had military roles, as in Bo-105.

 

If inclusion of some turboprops / piston engined transport planes somehow trigger a more detailed supply system and ability to create forward bases apart from predefined airbases, than such civilian rooted developments would tremendeously add to combat side of sim as well.

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Great idea.....but

Imagine the added complexity extending scenery by a factor of x1000?

Then integrating flight plans/mil/civ//atc/radio...etc etc

I think we recognise that most of us would accept a 'global' compromise in favour of an enhanced local/VR/Multiscreen experience.

Just my twopence worth.

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Civilian AI traffic with decent looking planes (that's were 3rd party devs could come in) would be nice. After all, in the real world, military flights share the airspace with civilian flights during peace time. This would be ideal for NTTR with a lot of civilian traffic around Vegas. That, and an updated ATC system would help with immersion.

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First off all i would say that if this by any means would mean additional income for the company hence more development funds DO IT.

Plus if we get even more attention in this game it means we might get more devoted developers for modules and not only.

 

That being said i would like to state the obvious.

Flying big fat birds in predeterminated routes is not out of the scope of DCS either.

I mean we could fly Tankers, AWACS, Joint Stars, Cargo planes and why not even troops and equipment. This pretty much fits in the game.

 

Still as an afterthought though i would like to say that i would not mid DCS to be so big at some point that it might be worth to make a version of REX (Real Enviroment Extreme) for DCS.

 

All in all i am possitive.

 

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IF the maps were bigger then what we have now then yes.

 

Hell IF ED can do the whole world then DCS might even replace FSX.

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Military craft only for me and I won't buy trainers either. I would purchase something like a C-130 or military transports but a 747 or even single engine civilian props hold no interest at all. TBH the flight model would be the main thing that would even bring other sim pilots here because other features are better presented elsewhere. PLENTY of military craft out there to develop ... hey I would buy a FW189 if your looking at something to make to enjoy the upcoming maps.

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I would not be interested in something like a regular cessna 172 or boeing 747, but I think there's room to add another layer other than just combat. Say, fighting fires in a helicopter, delivering supplies to FARPs, maybe fly paratroopers to their destinations. More non combat stuff like that I think would be a fair addition to DCS, and may help bring in some GA guys that have no interest in combat but want to have more purpose than just flying from airport to airport.

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I await civil aviation in DCS. Given the choice between DCS, X-Plane, or FSX, I would easily take civilian aircraft in DCS. The physics are better. Ideally, DCS should have every aircraft available. I also don't really see why civil and military sims need to be very different. Big maps and ATC are important for both. ED is working on the latter, and says they're looking into the former.

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I'd love civil stuff for DCS. However, DCS is dragging way behind FSX and they is years of work to cover decent weather modeling, ATC, ai traffic... DCS is great plane simulator, however, FSX simulate Aviation in a larger scope. Thats why they are so many people still on it.

 

 

What DCS miss the most is a free simple FC style trainer/cessna.


Edited by Darkwolf
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I think there's a place for it but like someone said before, really only for shorter range stuff as it stands. I think your widebodies (outside of a military context) are too long-legged for our current maps.

 

I'd love to see some tactical airlift aircraft though- your C27s and the like.

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I would definitely buy civilian modules but with some conditions attached. Helicopters would be great for the current sized maps we have and maybe some small GA aircraft, but something like a 737 would be a waste of time. Important the civilian aircraft would need to be capable of IFR flight unlike DCS Huey which can't currently track VORs.

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I think if ED can build a "whole World" engine on a future version of EGDE engine, can be enter the civil environment under DCS: W, but not sure if DCS need change your name to adapt them to a new target.

 

Of course, to "replace" FSX and similar, ED need improve some characteristics into the sim, as better weather environment, a "realistic" AI air and ground and sea traffic (if ground and naval environment coming into DCS: W), a better AI ATC, and some capability to get "pilot-able" ATCs into the simulator.

 

And of course improve the dedicate servers to build "living world".

 

About civilian aircrafts, helos....... vehicles, ships and trains?. not sure, surely require a complete reconstruction and improvements of the engine to turn them on a "acceptable" environment to get "civilian" 3rd parties into them.

 

And please note this takes a massive amount of effort. This is in the same game in which BMP-2s regularly snipe Su-27s out of the sky with ease and put dedicated anti aircraft guns like the Gepard, Vulcan and Shilka to shame.

 

Lets not bite off more than we can chew. The concept of being "a mile wide, an inch deep" isn't a good one for games. Especially when resources are spread so thin. I think ED has their plate full on the military side of things for many years to come.

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