BRM-1 guidance modelling and accuracy.

I have one question that I really need the answer to:

Did you guys add an artificial bounce to the BRM to make it extremely inaccurate and reduce its effectiveness?

I ask this because way back before the April 16 2020 OB patch, The missile flew a straight and stable trajectory. It barely veered away from the center of the TGP reticle, even if you maneuvered 90 degrees left or right.

After the patch that day, despite there being no edits to the BRM-1.lua file, all of the sudden the rocket began to fly an extremely unstable trajectory. It didn't matter if you flew perfectly straight, firing while going M1.0 at a range of 2nm, they still swerved violently around the laser beam, often missing the target by upwards of 10 meters.

I understand that these use the Vikhr scheme, as stupid and unrealistic the decision to make them like that is. (let's forget the fact that the S-25L is a spinning SALH rocket already in the sim)

Here's the thing I don't get: the Vikhr on the Frogfoot and Hokum do not violently swing around the laser beam as it flies down to the target. Even if you begin to turn away in the Su-25, the Vikhr will remain stable and near the center of the Shkval display.

If you intentionally made them like this, why?

If it was because they had too good range, then this is not really helping because the bounce makes them useless even when fired as close as 1.5nm/2 nm.

Please get rid of this change as it further degrades an already unrealistically downgraded weapon.

(Better yet, adopt the S-25L scheme. No more of this unrealistic beam-riding crap)

I don’t think the S-25L spins. They have said in the threads before they did not do anything to it after the original complaints came up

I have one question that I really need the answer to:

 

Did you guys add an artificial bounce to the BRM to make it extremely inaccurate and reduce its effectiveness?

 

I ask this because way back before the April 16 2020 OB patch, The missile flew a straight and stable trajectory. It barely veered away from the center of the TGP reticle, even if you maneuvered 90 degrees left or right.

 

After the patch that day, despite there being no edits to the BRM-1.lua file, all of the sudden the rocket began to fly an extremely unstable trajectory. It didn't matter if you flew perfectly straight, firing while going M1.0 at a range of 2nm, they still swerved violently around the laser beam, often missing the target by upwards of 10 meters.

 

I understand that these use the Vikhr scheme, as stupid and unrealistic the decision to make them like that is. (let's forget the fact that the S-25L is a spinning SALH rocket already in the sim)

 

Here's the thing I don't get: the Vikhr on the Frogfoot and Hokum do not violently swing around the laser beam as it flies down to the target. Even if you begin to turn away in the Su-25, the Vikhr will remain stable and near the center of the Shkval display.

 

If you intentionally made them like this, why?

 

If it was because they had too good range, then this is not really helping because the bounce makes them useless even when fired as close as 1.5nm/2 nm.

 

Please get rid of this change as it further degrades an already unrealistically downgraded weapon.

 

(Better yet, adopt the S-25L scheme. No more of this unrealistic beam-riding crap)

I don’t think the S-25L spins. They have said in the threads before they did not do anything to it after the original complaints came up

Then why is this the only beam-riding rocket with an extremely unstable trajectory, despite there being no edit to the .lua on the patch this "bug" first appeared.

It's quite a noticeable change, going from the pre-4/16 BRM to today's BRM. There's 0 chance they could've missed the rocket behaving wildly, especially since in the last couple of patches they did the .lua, unless Deka don't play-test their changes.

(which I starting to believe they don't, since that SPJ bug from yesterday's patch would've also been easily caught the week and a half ago when they updated the changelog)

ED changes things in the core that break things all the time even if LUA stays the same, the LUA isn’t everything, they could have easily made a guided rocket change and not communicated the change, this doesn’t happen so much anymore it seems but it still happens none the less

Vikhr does sping violent if not launched properly, and even then it takes few circles to find center.

If target moves or you move laterally, vikhr sways around the beam trying to stay inside.

And vikhr is not properly modeled in Su-25T, too stable...

S-25L does not have scheme.

And Deka did not change the LUA to make BRM unstable.

They changed something

on the left was the original values from when it worked, to the now current values on the right.

Basically since that update it can pull less G, less AOA and the control surfaces don't deflect as much. So it can't keep up with riding the beam.

Can't these changes just be reverted till the proper guidance becomes available to deka they've gone from working with incorrect guidance to using the incorrect guidance and not working.

They changed something

on the left was the original values from when it worked, to the now current values on the right.

 

Basically since that update it can pull less G, less AOA and the control surfaces don't deflect as much. So it can't keep up with riding the beam.

 

Can't these changes just be reverted till the proper guidance becomes available to deka they've gone from working with incorrect guidance to using the incorrect guidance and not working.

From lots of ACMI, the BRM still hitting targets with 30degs plus pitch and very high AoA, and it does not need 12G at all in most case. Don't think it is reasonabe to futrher increase these values.

But our engineer will keep an eye on BRM and try to find a better solution for the wepean.

From lots of ACMI, the BRM still hitting targets with 30degs plus pitch and very high AoA, and it does not need 12G at all in most case. Don't think it is reasonabe to futrher increase these values.

 

But our engineer will keep an eye on BRM and try to find a better solution for the wepean.

Myself with 2 other friends were on the Hoggit server last night. We were firing the BRM-1 90’s at ZU-23’s using lock on the targeting pod so the target was boxed and the BRM-1 90mm missed every single time by all three aircraft. I manually guided the targeting pod with the cross on the lower part of the target and the rockets also over shot, it wasn’t until I manually pointed the targeting pod lower then the target itself I got hits. We Fired more then 30 rockets testing this and we got 3 kills in the end. We switched the GBU-12’s in the end.

Myself with 2 other friends were on the Hoggit server last night. We were firing the BRM-1 90’s at ZU-23’s using lock on the targeting pod so the target was boxed and the BRM-1 90mm missed every single time by all three aircraft. I manually guided the targeting pod with the cross on the lower part of the target and the rockets also over shot, it wasn’t until I manually pointed the targeting pod lower then the target itself I got hits. We Fired more then 30 rockets testing this and we got 3 kills in the end. We switched the GBU-12’s in the end.

The Zu-23 emplacement?

If you're still wondering what exactly I'm talking about, please watch this video of the BRM-1 from the first couple days of the JF-17's release:

As you can see when the player fires the massive salvo of BRMs, all of them remain inside the inner part of the TGPs crosshair at max zoom all the way down until impact. Despite being fired at sub-optimal conditions; 4.2nm @ Mach 0.38 /241kts IAS, at a shallow 2 degree dive, ALL of them hit the Abrams tank.

Here is a video of me doing the same to a couple of BTRs in the latest patch:

In this video you can clearly see the BRMs, when fired in similar conditions to the first video will bounce and swerve wildly around, often going outside of the outer parts of the TGPs zoom bounding box in max zoom. And yes, while some still managed to hit the target, others landed meters away from the designated point, unlike the previous video which all BRMs scored a hit.

I was also in active pause in my test, and the rockets still bounced around alot. Had I started to maneuver, they would bounce more erratically as they tried to stay in the center and ultimately over-correct and miss by a considerable distance.

EDIT:

Screen shot of the rockets, if you can't see them

Old BRMs. These ALWAYS stay inside the circled area

New BRMs. These always bounce around, this isn't even the worst I've seen them veer away from the center.

The Zu-23 emplacement?

That’s correct. I may even have the tac view file if that helps at all?

If you're still wondering what exactly I'm talking about, please watch this video of the BRM-1 from the first couple days of the JF-17's release:

 

 

As you can see when the player fires the massive salvo of BRMs, all of them remain inside the inner part of the TGPs crosshair at max zoom all the way down until impact. Despite being fired at sub-optimal conditions; 4.2nm @ Mach 0.38 /241kts IAS, at a shallow 2 degree dive, ALL of them hit the Abrams tank.

 

Here is a video of me doing the same to a couple of BTRs in the latest patch:

 

 

In this video you can clearly see the BRMs, when fired in similar conditions to the first video will bounce and swerve wildly around, often going outside of the outer parts of the TGPs zoom bounding box in max zoom. And yes, while some still managed to hit the target, others landed meters away from the designated point, unlike the previous video which all BRMs scored a hit.

 

I was also in active pause in my test, and the rockets still bounced around alot. Had I started to maneuver, they would bounce more erratically as they tried to stay in the center and ultimately over-correct and miss by a considerable distance.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

Screen shot of the rockets, if you can't see them

 

 

 

Old BRMs. These ALWAYS stay inside the circled area

 

 

New BRMs. These always bounce around, this isn't even the worst I've seen them veer away from the center.

Thx, our engineer will taking this into account for parameter adjustment.:thumbup:

That’s correct. I may even have the tac view file if that helps at all?

No thanks, I've checked the ZU23's 3D model is should be fine, we will try digging in the weapon parameter.