Hope you all stay safe.

Lol talk about somebody ''parroting talking points'' good job. Most of what you said has literally nothing to do with anything anybody said, especially the bits about liberals and Hillary. That's just... unrelated? And yes, people from other countries can indeed criticise or voice opinions about world events. Your reasoning reminds me a lot of a certain poster here criticising how his opinion was unpopular on public websites, because ''freedom of speech'' and ''Murica'' he wanted to shut them down. Pot meet kettle? Irony much? Massive display of circular logic? Take your pick.

And we're sure you're absolutely a former head official of FEMA and DHS, just like every poster who complains about ED's flightmodels is an aeronautical engineer who helped design the SR-71. I wonder if @KimJongUn is really him? That would be pretty funny actually. ''Sabre OP capitalist pigs, buff Glorious MiG-15 of Best Korea!''

-edit

Good example of what we're referring to:

''The CDC recommends wearing a mask, but it's voluntary. You don't have to do it. I'm not going to do it. I can't picture myself behind this beautiful desk wearing a mask.''

Great example you're setting there, chief. *slow golf clap* Truly inspiring leadership in the face of a national crisis. Only Americans would look at this and say ''this is fine''.

Lol talk about somebody ''parroting talking points'' good job. Most of what you said has literally nothing to do with anything anybody said, especially the bits about liberals and Hillary. That's just... unrelated? And yes, people from other countries can indeed criticise or voice opinions about world events. Your reasoning reminds me a lot of a certain poster here criticising how his opinion was unpopular on public websites, because ''freedom of speech'' and ''Murica'' he wanted to shut them down. Pot meet kettle? Irony much? Massive display of circular logic? Take your pick.

 

And we're sure you're absolutely a former head official of FEMA and DHS, just like every poster who complains about ED's flightmodels is an aeronautical engineer who helped design the SR-71. I wonder if @KimJongUn is really him? That would be pretty funny actually. ''Sabre OP capitalist pigs, buff Glorious MiG-15 of Best Korea!''

Said I worked closely with Fema Chucky. Learn to read.

No person, organization or political party could see this coming (and the ones that are looking back and saying they did are liars). Or prevent this from happening.

Looking at several Asian countries and their numbers of infections and fatalities, as reported by the Johns Hopkins University, it seems they did see it coming, and prevented it from happening. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan all report less fatalities in total than the US and several other countries have suffered in a day, for days in a row. And while there is some doubt about the numbers reported by China lately, it still looks like China's intense reaction to the SARS CoV2 outbreak did manage to contain the spread fairly well, given the huge number of people in the affected regions.

Political leaders all around the globe have played down this pandemic, delaying lockdowns and distancing measures until their countries were well past a point of containing the spread. And it's not like we couldn't see it coming; when Iran and Italy were hit hard, apparently we all thought it still wouldn't affect us, and now we're paying the price. Some countries delayed lockdowns and distancing measures as long as this week, and I really hope that through some kind of massively good fortune they'll be spared what the US, Italy, Spain, Iran and other countries are going through right now.

One really, really important lesson to learn from this: Asian countries like the ones mentioned above most certainly learned from the SARS (CoV1) outbreak. In hind sight, SARS didn't look all that bad. In fact, by now several countries have seen more fatalities from SARS CoV2 in a day than SARS CoV1 has caused in total. But back then, some countries realized that next time, it could be a lot worse, so they prepared, and that payed off (at least it seems so right now, and I fully believe history will show them to be right). If we're smart, we should learn from this as well, and we should hold our political leaders responsible not to make the same mistakes again.

As for the rather short term: measures implemented today will take at least some 2 weeks to show effect on the number of new infections, and some 3 weeks to show effect on the number of fatalities. In this particular pandemic, every single day counts. And quite honestly, there's a lot of blame to go around. Particularly when it comes to the guy who some consider to be the single most powerful person on the planet.

Trump has been trying to control immigration since being elected to help mitigate situations such as these although it still would have happened.

I guess this is the part where our mutual disagreement is so intense that for the sake of a multitude of forum rules, we should agree to disagree.

Nah , don't think i'm gonna dry up . Fact is , i don't care what your politics are . It's your tone i object to . Calling people "morons" or "Chucky" is not conducive to discourse . This country is ripping itself apart because of political polarisation , and when the center is lost , it is over for all of us .

Try treating people with different ideas with a little more respect , and we just might preserve this Republic . As one who tries to keep tabs on what is going on in the world , i value the perspectives of those from other nations . You do not appear to value those even of your countrymen , if they're outside your bubble .

So a dude from New Zealand blames Trump for a global pandemic that was created by mother nature in CHINA and spread around the world? Now I though I had heard every moron weigh in on the subject but apparently there was one more...

Seriously dude???

 

(…)

 

 

No person, organization or political party could see this coming (and the ones that are looking back and saying they did are liars). Or prevent this from happening.

Facts

Trump has been trying to control immigration since being elected to help mitigate situations such as these although it still would have happened.

Dude,

As others have noted, you seem to have quoted me without reading what I said.

I don't blame Trump for the Pandemic.

I blame him for letting his greed and ego drive him to take a hugely important job that he's obviously incapable of doing.

I blame him for delaying the US's response to a global pandemic because he thought propping up the stock market's confidence would improve his re-election chances, and to him was more important than saving American lives.

Surely even his most ardent supporters must have noticed that while the disease was spreading like deadly wildfire overseas, he was saying that US numbers were going down, that it was no worse than the flu, and that it would disappear like a miracle by Spring ?

It is obvious to the rest of the world that he has mismanaged every aspect of the US's response, and even from the other side of the world, the 10's of thousands - it may yet be hundreds of thousands - of needless American deaths is a tragedy no-one should ignore.

His callous attempts to score political points by trying to imply that somehow if only he'd been allowed to build his non-sensical wall or somehow keep 'foreigners' out everything might somehow have been different is as ridiculous as his current claim that if he can keep US deaths down to somewhere around 100,000, he'll have done a 10/10 job.

It's classic Trumpian 'blame someone else'ism.

Who could have seen it coming if a highly stable genius couldn't ?

Maybe his predecessor, who set up a department to respond to pandemics, only to have Trump disband it because it had been set up by Obama, and the man wrecks anything with Obama's name like a jealous stepchild wrecking their stepbrothers toys.

I am angry at his stupidity, but more I am sad at the damage he does, and the lives he will waste.

Oh, and about this:

First, if you don’t live in the US, vote in the US or pay taxes in the US, you have no business complaining about Trumps actions or anybody’s stock trades.

I solemnly promise that on the day that both the people of the US, and the US Government, stop commenting on the actions and morality of people outside their borders, I will stop commenting on the actions and morality of those within the US borders.

I was really hoping (as I'm sure the OP was) that this would remain a non-political thread and that people would be sensible and perhaps offer support to each other throughout this health crisis.

Unfortunately it's sinking into the usual mess of bashing egos and derogatory comments having a go at others either openly or by insinuation.

Please stick to the original subject and tone and intent of the thread -else it will just be closed like the others that went this way.

Maybe that's what you guys are trying to do? We should be sticking together and helping each other.

It's tricky.

I agree with your sentiment, & I hope for and wish everyone on the forum regardless of race, religion, country of origin or political affiliation, their families, friends and their country-folk, the best outcome possible, but the reality is that how this turns out will be largely about how politicians deal with it, not the intensity of people's prayers, good wishes, or the advice of scientists.

The last time the world's economy tanked like this Fascism and WWII grew out of the dislocation and anger that the political solutions to the WWI and the great depression generated.

What's that saying ? "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing."

If we don't learn from the lessons of the past, we will be destined to repeat its mistakes.

You can swap out the groups for whoever is locally appropriate, but remember the sentiment of:

 

First they came for the Communists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Communist

 

Then they came for the Socialists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist

 

Then they came for the trade unionists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a trade unionist

 

Then they came for the Jews

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew

 

Then they came for me

And there was no one left

To speak out for me

I do have concerns about the end result of this pandemic and what countries may be tempted to do if and when they find themselves in economic turmoil - isn't that why many wars have started in the past - but if that were to be discussed I think it would be best in its own thread, as it would really be just hijacking this one if it were to switch to that kind of discussion, as the obvious intent of the thread by the OP was more a human and moral one, and not political or economic.

Trying to support each other or even just having a place to express fears or worries is an important thing - especially where they don't have to worry about being belittled or under any kind of pressure of humiliation or anything else, personal, political, racial, whatever.

Personally I'm sick of the blame game, though modern society seems to thrive on it.

From what i noticed nations with demogrpahics with an larger elderly senior population are the ones who are suffering the most, wheras the youth - adult population will pull through such an illness if they get get sick.

Anyone remember remember the Swine flu?

this was far more dangerous pandemic to most demograhics as this strain of flu was potent enough that it was more people under the age of 65 were perishing from it relative to covid 19 is so far. With Covid 19 the death toll is much larger in the elderly category. Those at an age where they have weak enouh immunue systems, that even the "everyday flu" would be a threat to them. yet back in 2009- 2010 daily business operations were not stopped, people were not being ordered to confinement in their homes. I did not know anyone in family or freinds that had was affected by H1N1.

Yet when the Swine flu pandemic was around it was not covered by media as much. Life carried on almost as normally as thing had.

With this current pandemic mainstream media seems to be much more keen on causing a "panic". Adding fuel to the fire is not the answer, especially to a flu based pandemic that is not as bad as the last one. They have made it out to seem like a bigger crisis than it really is.

if day to day activities don't resume ( considering statements made they won't) it will result in a global recession.

Although less deadly than the Swine flu , Covid is reported to be much more transmissible . The fear is that numbers alone will overwhelm healthcare systems , with a corresponding increase in the death rate due to lack of/inadequate treatment .

While i am certain the media is not downplaying the story , the warnings from responsible public health professionals , and their recommendations , does not , in my opinion , warrant characterizing Covid as a media-generated event .

From what i noticed nations with demogrpahics with an larger elderly senior population are the ones who are suffering the most, wheras the youth - adult population will pull through such an illness if they get get sick.

I keep hearing this line of reasoning over and over again.

First, while it looks to be true that people are more vulnerable to Covid19 the older they are, that is absolutely not to say that younger people are in any way safe.

And second: What the hell?! Who cares which part of the demographic is most vulnerable? We are still talking about humans, right? We are still talking about people who have the same right to live as anyone else, aren't we?

The more often I hear this argument, the more it sounds like "Who cares about the elderly?" to me, as if the pandemic was somehow not quite as important if it only killed old people or those with preexisting health problems.

Anyone remember remember the Swine flu?

You know what, why don't we play the numbers game?

According to Wikipedia, the swine flu killed over 7800 humans.

As you duly noted yourself, there was no global lockdown during the swine flu, and measures taken were not nearly as drastic as the measure that we're all seeing nowadays against the SARS CoV2/Covid19 outbreak.

And despite all the drastic measures that have already been taken, the countries of Italy, Spain, France and the US have each counted more Covid19 victims than the entire swine flu caused in 2009 on a global scale. All the while, some politicians keep saying that if the number of victims on their respective national scale were to stay below a massively higher threshold, that'd still be a good outcome.

Even from a purely numbers point of view, I'd say you have to make a choice:

a) SARS CoV2/Covid19 is hardly any worse than the swine flu/the seasonal flu

b) SARS CoV2/Covid19 isn't that bad, it only kills the weak and elderly

Now we can argue about that all day long, and no one cares who wins the debate.

But if we, as a society, treat SARS CoV2/Covid19 as if it were nothing but the seasonal flu, then it will keep spreading and the death toll will keep rising. Healthcare workers will keep getting overwhelmed. And if you don't happen to have friends and relatives potentially vulnerable to this virus: I do, and I want them all to live through this crisis.

Anyone remember remember the Swine flu?

Yeah, I do !

That was the one where public health officials went "phew, we dodged a bullet that time, we better get prepared because next time we might not be so lucky"

All joking aside, if you can't see the difference between where the world got to with swine flu and the POtuS standing up and saying "If I can keep deaths to around 100,000 over the next few weeks, I'll give myself 10/10", & somehow feel this is all a media beat-up, you need to change your information sources.

We'll skip over the bit where you suggest that old people should be allowed to die to protect the economy (How old are you ? That's a very generous offer you're making if you're over 60)

if day to day activities don't resume ( considering statements made they won't) it will result in a global recession.

There will be a recession.

10,000,000 filed for unemployment in the US in the last 2 weeks. This week will be worse, and next week worse than that.

I don't know how many businesses will go under, but it will be a lot.

Even if the US somehow managed to stop the business failures and get everybody back to work in a fortnight, the rest of the world isn't going to be, and the supply lines for US industry and retail often trace back fairly quickly to something coming in from overseas.

No inputs, no outputs...

The 1% don't care - only this morning there was someone on the TV saying this is a great time to buy in the stock market for the long haul, because values are down but will recover in a couple of years so there's some great bargains to be had.

Economic collapses are great for those with enough resources behind them to take advantage of the troubles others find themselves in.

It's what happens to the other 99% that we have to worry about, and for us it's not a question of

'Is there going to be a recession ?'

the question is,

'How are we going to deal with the recession?'

Will we come together, or let the people that profit off our misfortunes goad us into tearing each other apart ?