[Bug] [Solved] Some key commands not working as expected. - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-02-2019, 03:53 PM   #11
Vibora
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kontiuka View Post
is that the way it behaves in the real aircraft?

P.S.

Thanks for the nice updates, AvioDev.
It should be correct like it is now, i.e. the trim should stop when speed brake reaches full deflection. Though it could be that it doesn't happen in some airplanes, but in that case it's a malfunction, it's not that there are several versions of the aircraft. We have a feedback from a real pilot who said it shouldn't stop, but in general all pilots say it should. The real in-depth data states it should stop. So we have added it as a failure in ME, if we get more feedback that suggest something else, then we would add it as a special module option or ME option.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kontiuka View Post
is that the way it behaves in the real aircraft?
The real plane has a link between the speedbrake and the pitch trim, to avoid an impact on the fligh attitude when you extend the airbrake .. the manual of the real aircraft says: (sorry, in spanish only)

Quote:
El despliegue del aerofreno crea un momento de encabritado, variable con
la velocidod y creciente con la misma. Con obieto de que el piloto no tenga que estor pendiente del mismo, contrarrestándolo con el compensador de altura y/o con
el timón, existe uno interconexión entre los circuitos eléctricos de mando del oerofreno y del compensador, de tal modo que siempre que se accione el conmutador
del primero, automáticamente se energizo el actuador del segundo.

Con esta disposición y para KlAS comcrendidos entre 200 y 380 se obtiene
un montenimienro automático momentáneo y ccsi total
de lo compensación longirudinol, si previamente o io
operación de oeroireno el avión estaba yo compensado.
A velocidades por debojo de 200 KlAS el efecro del ae
refreno sobre lo comcensoción es pequeño y por encima
de 380 KlAS el piloto deberá proceder o uno acción
complementario de compensación
However, the C-101 a few months back was pitching down a lot when you extended the speedbrake, like if the trim were being added in an excesive way, like you can see on this test flight, where I trim the plane for norizontal flight and when extending the speedbrake the aircraft goes onto a dive by itself.



I havent tested it fully, but on my last flight I didnt notice this diving tendency anymore
Cheers.
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Old 11-02-2019, 05:16 PM   #13
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Rudel, you know how this all works, but you are mixing up things a bit and that could probably confuse people.
Let me explain what have we done and how this all works:
We didn't make any changes in Flight Model for very long time.
The extension of the speed brake causes a pitch up tendency in this airplane. To avoid that, there is a connection between the speed brake and trim. What happens is that when pressing the speed brake switch the trim acts at the same time, trimming to compensate that pitch tendency just described, so that when extending the speed brake the trim will pitch down (thus compensating the pitch up moment of the speed brake), and vice-versa when retracting speed brake.
When the speed brake reaches the limit (full extension or full retraction), microswitches detect this and cut the trim, so that it doesn't keep trimming even if you keep the speed brake switch depressed.
Before this last update, in our C-101 simulation, there was no cutout of autotrim when the speed brake was reaching the limit.
What we added in this update is this cutout function. As well as the malfunction of the cutout, which is something that can occur in real C-101's.
In your video I see that the autotrim is working, but since you don't stop depressing the speed brake immediately after the speed brake reaches the limit there is some pitch moment still acting.
Also, take into account that pitch moment will always change a bit even when autotrim is acting, since there is a change in airplane speed, unless you add power to keep current speed.
If you want to test the effect of speed brake in pitch moment after this last update you have three options:
- Activate the failure in ME.
- Open the emergency trim guard (if flying the C-101EB be sure that TONO TRIM (tone trim) is pushed in, otherwise the emergency pitch trim guard will not cut the relation between the speed brake circuit and the trim circuit).
- Pull out trim CB's.
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Last edited by Vibora; 11-02-2019 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibora View Post
Rudel, you know how this all works, but you are mixing up things a bit and that could probably confuse people.
Let me explain what have we done and how this all works
...
Before this last update, in our C-101 simulation, there was no cutout of autotrim when the speed brake was reaching the limit.
What we added in this update is this cutout function. As well as the malfunction of the cutout, which is something that can occur in real C-101's.
...
In your video I see that the autotrim is working, but since you don't stop depressing the speed brake immediately after the speed brake reaches the limit there is some pitch moment still acting.
Hi,

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation ... my HOTAS cougar has a switch for the speedbrake that locks when extended, since the C101 didnt had a keybind to fully extend the airbrake with a single press, I had no option at the time but to allow the button to keep the key pressed as long as it was on the locked "extend" position.

With the C101 latest update I'm now able to use the speedbrake toggle, so it is a single "b" when entering the lock position, and another single "b" when unlocking .. of-course I realize that this way I'm not able to half-extend the speedbrake, but that is ok for me.

Quote:
Also, take into account that pitch moment will always change a bit even when autotrim is acting, since there is a change in airplane speed, unless you add power to keep current speed.
Yes, I understand that, but a small change is no problem ... where previously I was fighting the trim each time the speedbrake extended.

Quote:
If you want to test the effect of speed brake in pitch moment after this last update you have three options:
- Activate the failure in ME.
- Open the emergency trim guard (if flying the C-101EB be sure that TONO TRIM (tone trim) is pushed in, otherwise the emergency pitch trim guard will not cut the relation between the speed brake circuit and the trim circuit).
- Pull out trim CB's.
I really love the detail that your team has achieved on the system's modelling .. not even the F-14 has simulated all the Circuit Breakers like you've done kudos for that.

I do intend to play with the failure activations, but probably will go for more serious failures than just the speedbrake's trim compensator

Thanks a lot and I do hope that the Mirage F1 is coming along nicely, I will not wait for a sale, but will purchase as soon as it cames into Early Acess

Cheers.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:48 PM   #15
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If I were you I would use T9 and T10 on your Thrustmaster Cougar for speed brake using speed brake extend and speed brake retract control inputs, for example, T9 extend and T10 retract. You are missing a fundamental function of the speed brake when using toggle, which doesn't make much sense. You could use S3 shift for flaps extend and retract to next position.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibora View Post
If I were you I would use T9 and T10 on your Thrustmaster Cougar for speed brake using speed brake extend and speed brake retract control inputs, for example, T9 extend and T10 retract. You are missing a fundamental function of the speed brake when using toggle, which doesn't make much sense. You could use S3 shift for flaps extend and retract to next position.


Thank you for the idea ... I did tried it once that way, but couldnt get used to it because I use it on this way on a lot of other aircrafts, so my muscle-memory is already set to use T9 for flaps and T10 for speedbrake
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:37 PM   #17
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OK. Let's leave it here since it's an off-topic. In any case, happy landings…
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibora View Post
OK. Let's leave it here since it's an off-topic. In any case, happy landings…

Roger ... one last thing, I tried to change the 1st post tittle to "[Bug] [Solved] Some ..." but it doesn't change the thread title, can you please update it to reflect that the Bug is solved? Thanks
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:15 PM   #19
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Sure. Done
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