Broken Anti-Aliasing

Is this really what it's supposed to look like? The ship's wake has been ugly since I first installed 2.5 and I've spent many, many hours testing and adjusting settings both in-game and Nvidia CP, trying to smooth the ship wakes. AA works ok (and just ok) on everything else, but ships wake specifically is a nightmare of jaggies and strobing.

I finally bring it up now because I was showing DCS to a friend last night. Catapulted off the carrier, circled around and he literally said, "oh wow, that looks terrible."

He's right, and to be honest, it was embarrassing.

Attached are my settings and a video, though it looks quite a bit worse when it's not masked by youtube's res and compression limitations.

Again, I've messed with nearly every setting in CP and in game and nothing at all affect the wakes. Am I missing something? Are there config values that can be manipulated? Or is it this bad for everyone else too?

Pics

did you try SSAA instead of MSAA?

Yeah I tried it when it was first released. It turned my normally smooth running sim into a slideshow, and negligible affect on wakes.

try somethin like this with your res at 1080p and the SSAA at 1.5x or 2x.. then go up from there if you can..

well... i think SSAA changed a bit as it is only available for 1080p resolution now... maybe give it another shot... but use it instead of MSAA..

Also,.. try dropping your visibility range down to high... thats probably killin you all by itself...

try somethin like this with your res at 1080p and the SSAA at 1.5x or 2x.. then go up from there if you can..

I actually did try SSAA again after your first suggestion, and I'm currently using a 1080p monitor. My fps still drops like a rock with SSAA and it doesn't show any visual improvement over MSAA. Whether SSAA or MSAA, AA overall is ok, the ship wake jaggies are really bad. The only visible difference between the two that I can see is much higher fps with MSAA. I appreciate the suggestions though.

Edit: Based on the video I posted up top, is my AA significantly worse or does everybody's look like that.

I actually did try SSAA again after your first suggestion, and I'm currently using a 1080p monitor. My fps still drops like a rock with SSAA and it doesn't show any visual improvement over MSAA. Whether SSAA or MSAA, AA overall is ok, the ship wake jaggies are really bad. The only visible difference between the two that I can see is much higher fps with MSAA. I appreciate the suggestions though.

 

Edit: Based on the video I posted up top, is my AA significantly worse or does everybody's look like that.

i actually just watched your video... interestingly, i have noticed the same sort of effect on the cloud layer when density is set to 9... might just be something ED needs to work on... but i'll go chase down some ships and report back..

Also, if you really want to be able to crank up your MSAA or SSAA and maintain fps, go check out this mod

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373

basically drops your GPU load tremendously while not really sacrificing much.. allowing you to crank up the settings.

just checked... the wakes behind the ships are pretty junky at a distance for me too..

@ moonshot.

Returning to DCS with the Harrier and updated to 2.5, this is the first thing I saw.

Jaggy wakes, flashing like barber poles.

Nothing would alter them.

I'm using app control and more or less the same settings as you.

My solution: Remove all moving ships as they were completely unacceptable.

..

Mine looks just like yours in the video, also spent more time than I should have trying to ‘fix’ it with no satisfactory results.

It should be noted that DCS has always been known to have poor AA, but yeah, the wake effect is particularly bad. And unfortunately I’ve never seen it mentioned that they plan on improving overall AA performance.

Have you checked out any of the aftermarket post-processing apps like Reshade? I think I’m going to experiment with it this weekend.

...Returning to DCS with the Harrier...this is the first thing I saw...Jaggy wakes, flashing like barber poles...

 

My solution: Remove all moving ships as they were completely unacceptable...

Barber pole, man that’s a good description! But what an unfortunate solution :(

Do you not operate from the Tarawa? I agree the wake effect is unacceptably bad but you’re really missing out on one of the funnest parts of flying the Harrier if you’re not utilizing the Tarawa!

I think we can all agree it looks pretty shonky but has been this way since v2.1 was introduced.

I believe it is not an AA issue but rather the use of a legacy 1.5.8 wake texture in the 2.x water environment. Ergo no amount of twiddling your GFX processing is going to get rid.

It's not great but hardly game breaking.

Barber pole, man that’s a good description! But what an unfortunate solution :(

Do you not operate from the Tarawa? I agree the wake effect is unacceptably bad but you’re really missing out on one of the funnest parts of flying the Harrier if you’re not utilizing the Tarawa!

A check on a 3 yo video, showed those same 3 cargo ships, had rather subtle, spread out wakes, rather than the thick straight lines we have now.

I wiped all the ships from my regular Crimea battleground, because they looked so bad, but....

I installed Stennis today and completed my 1st, not too shabby, vertical landing (picture below for posterity). Tarawa is waiting in the wings, when I get the hang..

I think we can all agree it looks pretty shonky but has been this way since v2.1 was introduced.

 

I believe it is not an AA issue but rather the use of a legacy 1.5.8 wake texture in the 2.x water environment. Ergo no amount of twiddling your GFX processing is going to get rid.

 

It's not great but hardly game breaking.

I know for myself I hadn’t previously done a lot of sea ops in DCS. Now that we’ve got Hornet and Harrier I spend a lot more time looking at strobing and shimmering, step ladder wakes.

But I agree with you that this feels like either grafted legacy effects or an outright bug preventing AA from detecting wake edges.

I believe it is not an AA issue but rather the use of a legacy 1.5.8 wake texture in the 2.x water environment.

I vaguely remember something to that effect being mentioned once before when people were complaining about it. I want to say there was a similar issue with the shorelines, too.

I think we can all agree it looks pretty shonky but has been this way since v2.1 was introduced.

That's a long time, what, three years?

Strangely though, Wags doesn't seem to suffer from the same jaggy wake as the rest of us. It looks like the effect is identical but with anti-aliasing applied.

So what gives? Maybe a tester or dev can let us know if we're missing something or if they're doing something different for their videos.

Have you checked out any of the aftermarket post-processing apps like Reshade? I think I’m going to experiment with it this weekend.

I didn't know such things exist. I'll look into it!

i noticed that too. aa got worse.

i hope they will fix it

if you would like a good option to crank the crap out of AA without much visual sacrifice, go here,,

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373

install the mod..

turn on in game MSAA and also be able to utilize Nvidia CP settings in doing so...

do it...

Same problem here.

Anti Aliasing doesnt look good at all.

if you would like a good option to crank the crap out of AA without much visual sacrifice, go here,,

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373

install the mod..

turn on in game MSAA and also be able to utilize Nvidia CP settings in doing so...

do it...

I know you keep advertising this mod, but it’s really becoming a bit tedious now. Anyway, no one mentioned VR here. Also, MSAA fully cranked makes no difference to this ship’s wake issue.

I know you keep advertising this mod, but it’s really becoming a bit tedious now. Anyway, no one mentioned VR here. Also, MSAA fully cranked makes no difference to this ship’s wake issue.

not sure what your gripe is... but the mod !!!GREATLY!!!!.. (notice the CAPS and exclamation marks)... increases performance in both VR and in 2D.. what it also does, is allows users the headroom to enable in game MSAA which in turn also allows them the use of Nvidia CP AA functionality... all of which can manifest a much cleaner look to the sim, provide previously unfeasible options to the user, and provide more fps than possible otherwise... im sorry this bugs you... it shouldn't.. and most if not all users will benefit greatly from it..

not sure what your gripe is... but the mod !!!GREATLY!!!!.. (notice the CAPS and exclamation marks)... increases performance in both VR and in 2D.. what it also does, is allows users the headroom to enable in game MSAA which in turn also allows them the use of Nvidia CP AA functionality... all of which can manifest a much cleaner look to the sim, provide previously unfeasible options to the user, and provide more fps than possible otherwise... im sorry this bugs you... it shouldn't.. and most if not all users will benefit greatly from it..

Of course that doesn’t bug me. It’s your constant posting and linking to that mod that does. Give it a rest, especially when it’s not relevant to the issue being discussed. Additionally, the mod makes almost no difference in 2D, and its effect in VR is very much dependent on hardware. I use the mod in VR, and it is a boon, but it’s not the wonder drug you keep suggesting.

Also, nVidia CP options have no effect in VR.

Of course that doesn’t bug me. It’s your constant posting and linking to that mod that does. Give it a rest, especially when it’s not relevant to the issue being discussed. Additionally, the mod makes almost no difference in 2D, and its effect in VR is very much dependent on hardware. I use the mod in VR, and it is a boon, but it’s not the wonder drug you keep suggesting.

Also, nVidia CP options have no effect in VR.

im sorry my friend.. but you are terribly mistaken... the mod makes a tremendous difference in 2D.. let alone VR.. simply for the fact that one can utilize all AA settings available to them where they previously could not without suffering a massive impact on performance... maybe it just hasn't worked well for you... the gains are huge for most everyone that has applied the mod.. the title of this thread alone, would make it relevant to 2D user and VR alike.. as for the wake issue, any adjustments of AA will affect every pixel rendered on the screen... while it may not directly address the wake issue, it will affect the way it is displayed.. i like seeing your considerations in the posts that ive read... and i mean you no disrespect... but the mod actually is the wonder drug that many are looking for... and regarding AA.. it couldn't be more relevant.

im sorry my friend.. but you are terribly mistaken... the mod makes a tremendous difference in 2D.. let alone VR.. simply for the fact that one can utilize all AA settings available to them where they previously could not without suffering a massive impact on performance... maybe it just hasn't worked well for you... the gains are huge for most everyone that has applied the mod.. the title of this thread alone, would make it relevant to 2D user and VR alike.. as for the wake issue, any adjustments of AA will affect every pixel rendered on the screen... while it may not directly address the wake issue, it will affect the way it is displayed.. i like seeing your considerations in the posts that ive read... and i mean you no disrespect... but the mod actually is the wonder drug that many are looking for... and regarding AA.. it couldn't be more relevant.

What exactly is this mod supposed to do for 2D users? I'm mainly interested in improving AA quality. I don't have performance issues really. I have i7-8700k, 1080Ti and 32GB DDR4. I fly DCS at 1440p and usually run in-game MSAA x4. I installed this mod and it did what it advertises and disabled AA over most of the FOV. I guess I have to edit the config file to enable AA again over the entire FOV but what's the point? NVCP AA setting still don't work even with global settings. What am I missing?

im sorry my friend.. but you are terribly mistaken... the mod makes a tremendous difference in 2D.. let alone VR.. simply for the fact that one can utilize all AA settings available to them where they previously could not without suffering a massive impact on performance... maybe it just hasn't worked well for you... the gains are huge for most everyone that has applied the mod.. the title of this thread alone, would make it relevant to 2D user and VR alike.. as for the wake issue, any adjustments of AA will affect every pixel rendered on the screen... while it may not directly address the wake issue, it will affect the way it is displayed.. i like seeing your considerations in the posts that ive read... and i mean you no disrespect... but the mod actually is the wonder drug that many are looking for... and regarding AA.. it couldn't be more relevant.

I am not 'terribly mistaken'.

1) You know from our helpful exchanges on other threads that the mod does work well for me, but you over-exaggerate its importance. It is not the solution to all problems like you seem to think. It is a boost to performance in VR, allowing higher MSAA values etc. to be used with no discernable performance hit.

2) the issue being discussed here, is the terrible problem of the wake on ships which is just broken. No amount of AA in whatever shape or form is going to affect that. As you can see from other posts here - including my own - that no amount of MSAA, nVidia AA, etc. resolves this problem. It is something that ED have to look into. 'Your' mod makes no difference to this issue either, and that is partly my point.

3) You are pretty much the only person I have come across who thinks that the mod makes any difference to non-VR. I have asked the question in other threads and have received the answer it makes no difference. I'm not saying it has a detrimental effect, just no great positives, unlike in VR. I think one of the main benefits of the mod is that it restricts the area that MSAA etc. are applied to in VR by allowing different masksize values, and that doesn't apply in non-VR.

4) In my opinion, there is no need to even use MSAA when running in 4K. The resolution is so high, that the amount of 'jaggies' is low, and that there is no real benefit of running MSAA or any other AA process at all. On a 32" monitor, I see very little difference with any kind of AA on or off, so I keep them all off in 4K and crank everything else up to max.

No doubt you will reply, but I feel we are going off-topic on this thread, so maybe we should continue by PM.

I am not 'terribly mistaken'.

1) You know from our helpful exchanges on other threads that the mod does work well for me, but you over-exaggerate its importance. It is not the solution to all problems like you seem to think. It is a boost to performance in VR, allowing higher MSAA values etc. to be used with no discernable performance hit.

2) the issue being discussed here, is the terrible problem of the wake on ships which is just broken. No amount of AA in whatever shape or form is going to affect that. As you can see from other posts here - including my own - that no amount of MSAA, nVidia AA, etc. resolves this problem. It is something that ED have to look into. 'Your' mod makes no difference to this issue either, and that is partly my point.

3) You are pretty much the only person I have come across who thinks that the mod makes any difference to non-VR. I have asked the question in other threads and have received the answer it makes no difference. I'm not saying it has a detrimental effect, just no great positives, unlike in VR. I think one of the main benefits of the mod is that it restricts the area that MSAA etc. are applied to in VR by allowing different masksize values, and that doesn't apply in non-VR.

4) In my opinion, there is no need to even use MSAA when running in 4K. The resolution is so high, that the amount of 'jaggies' is low, and that there is no real benefit of running MSAA or any other AA process at all. On a 32" monitor, I see very little difference with any kind of AA on or off, so I keep them all off in 4K and crank everything else up to max.

No doubt you will reply, but I feel we are going off-topic on this thread, so maybe we should continue by PM.

look bud... im not big on opinions ..or feelings,... what i am stating is based on results... it is not because i want something to be true or that i am enthusiastically enthralled by something..... it is based on hours and hours of testing while accounting for every possible variable... myself, and about every other person in that thread has had extraordinary results... you are entitled to your opinion and whatever you choose to believe in... but the facts of the matter, weather you are running VR or 2D... in 4k,...2k,... 720p,... or whatever you want, the mod creates a different set assets to be computed by the GPU... in a controlled environment with no other variable than the mod itself on a 1080ti, there is a 15-20% decrease in load on the GPU... this is not disputable... and can be easily measured over and over again... what this means... regardless of how you want to feel, or your opinion, is that the user now has the ability to apply 15-20% more load than previously attainable while maintaining the same or better FPS, or that they can maintain the same settings and pursue an increase in FPS based on the relative 15-20% GPU load that is available.... this in fact, hardware doesn't care about feelings, is a significant performance improvement... for any and all users... period... You want to chase fps.. have 15-20% more of your GPU to do it... You want to increase AA or any other graphics setting... have 15-20% more of your GPU to do it... take your pick.. or mix it up... or.... dont.