Why is it So hard to land the MI 8

I wouldn't ignore the VSI completely if you're below transition speed...

You shouldn't be below transition speed until you're entering ground effect anyway, at which point you're not going to be looking at your VSI.

not going to be looking at your VSI

Advisable to glance at it every now and then regardless.

Not really; your vertical speed is a function of your airspeed and descent angle. Look after those and vertical speed takes care if itself.

Well, I do it regardless just to make sure. A glance every now and then doesn't hurt.

Well, I do it regardless just to make sure. A glance every now and then doesn't hurt.

Yeah - it's there, just needs a glance, and you may have misjudged your approach for many reasons. In fact if you're looking down & forwards it's probably in peripheral vision from the left seat. Having said that though, again it's not providing particularily useful info until you're in danger of VRS & if you're still moving forwards & not doing something daft, then that's not really a risk.

Because it's a big chopper :shocking:

Yeah, true, if you're still moving forward and your sinkrate is within limits, there's no need to keep your eyes glued to it at all. Just an occasional glance for reference, that's all.

Hopefully it'll help someone, but I've attached a track of a gentle approach.

Constant angle approach with a gradual deceleration, losing ETL as I enter ground effect.

mi8 landing.trk

Because it's a big chopper :shocking:

Because VRS entry is modelled too soon with too low vertical speed. And engine reaction delay seems to me to be also longer than IRL.

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To"Backdraft"

The problem is that as other many players you try to land as with a plane.You forgot that the plane lands with some speed and stop with brakes.

You do with your helo the same and try to make a progressive approach upto speed 0.

It is the wrong way.

The helo offers the exceptional ability to stop and maintain hover at every heights.

Thus you have to practice to stop your helo and maintain hover at every height and flight phases.To do that only one thing is mandatory:it's your vertical speed.You have to constantly check out on the variometer of the MI8 and watch to not exceed 5.Better is 3.

Thus begin an approach at the height and speed you want,without a point of arrival,reduce your speed and you will see the helo comes down,adjust your vertical speed with collective between 3 and 5 never exceed 5.Continue to reduce speed upto 0 and adjust the collective to get the hover.

It is the only way to succeed at a landing with a helo,you have first to master the hover at every heights before.

Once you will be easy to make this exercice,you could choose the point where you want to land and stop.

At any heights or surface.

To"Backdraft"

The problem is that as other many players you try to land as with a plane.You forgot that the plane lands with some speed and stop with brakes.

You do with your helo the same and try to make a progressive approach upto speed 0.

It is the wrong way.

The helo offers the exceptional ability to stop and maintain hover at every heights.

 

Thus you have to practice to stop your helo and maintain hover at every height and flight phases.To do that only one thing is mandatory:it's your vertical speed.You have to constantly check out on the variometer of the MI8 and watch to not exceed 5.Better is 3.

 

Thus begin an approach at the height and speed you want,without a point of arrival,reduce your speed and you will see the helo comes down,adjust your vertical speed with collective between 3 and 5 never exceed 5.Continue to reduce speed upto 0 and adjust the collective to get the hover.

 

It is the only way to succeed at a landing with a helo,you have first to master the hover at every heights before.

Once you will be easy to make this exercice,you could choose the point where you want to land and stop.

At any heights or surface.

Sorry but that's completely wrong. You SHOULD make your approach as if you're flying fixed wing. The steep approach you're suggesting is exactly how players get into trouble.

Not only is your suggestion dangerous from a VRS point of view, it leaves you in the "dead man's curve" where auto-rotation is impossible in the event of an engine failure.

No pilot in their right mind what do what you're suggesting (with the possible exception of a confined area, but that doesn't apply here).

Sorry but that's completely wrong. You SHOULD make your approach as if you're flying fixed wing. The steep approach you're suggesting is exactly how players get into trouble.

 

 

 

Not only is your suggestion dangerous from a VRS point of view, it leaves you in the "dead man's curve" where auto-rotation is impossible in the event of an engine failure.

 

 

 

No pilot in their right mind what do what you're suggesting (with the possible exception of a confined area, but that doesn't apply here).

Agree. It is not advised to hover higher than 20m AGL because of Dead man’s curve. But sometimes you cannot avoid it.

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Try to make that approach with your fixed wing stuffs:

Helos are not flying like planes and are not intended to do same things.

The VRS is a stupid myth buzzed by players that have not enough mastered the MI8 and other helos.

Practice is the only stuff to due.

^^LOL! 'VRS is a Myth'!

I hope newbies don't listen to this guy.

^^LOL! 'VRS is a Myth'!

 

 

I hope newbies don't listen to this guy.

^^LOL! 'VRS is a Myth'!

 

 

I hope newbies don't listen to this guy.

Alas most if not all VRS appears to be settling with power AKA too fast a descent as opposed to actual VRS,.. ;)

Players:

you guys are speaking as if the DCS world is the same as real world.

You are in a video game.

In the real world the pilots spend a lot of practice hours before get their licence of flight.

They don't complaining at each time a stuff is too difficult.

If they want to obtain a licence,their only way is to master all aspects of flight;And also all aspects of a specific aircraft.

You would like that DCS becomes more close to real world,to have impress that you are flying,so begin to practice as the real pilots do.If you want master all aspects of flight.

Stop to looking for a trick or a cheating to get more fast in learning.In real world this kind of things doesn't exist.

It's a gamer stuff.

And all explanations coming from books or web threads will never replace the practice.

Practice and practice and repractice....

PS:about "myth" of VRS,it's you the players that make it a "myth".

You consistently give poor advice to new 'players' cromhunt.

Again, VRS/settling with power is not a myth and whether or not it is 'over-modeled' in DCS is irrelevant.

@cromhunt - Yes you absolutely do and should fly an approach similar to a fixed with aircraft, especially in a heavy Mi8. That's helicopter approach 101. To suggest otherwise shows how inadequate your knowledge on the matter is.

The appropriate advice to newbs is to avoid excessive rate of descent with insufficient forward airspeed on approach. Plan your approach like you would in a fixed with aircraft and pick an appropriate base and final leg to reach your LZ. You can then terminate to a roll on landing OR a hover - it matters not.

If you nail your approach, you will not have any trouble flying this aircraft. It's a joy to fly and having the extra mass and inertia over the UH-1 makes for an extra challenge and greater reward when you get it right!

You consistently give poor advice to new 'players' cromhunt.

 

Again, VRS/settling with power is not a myth and whether or not it is 'over-modeled' in DCS is irrelevant.

 

@cromhunt - Yes you absolutely do and should fly an approach similar to a fixed with aircraft, especially in a heavy Mi8. That's helicopter approach 101. To suggest otherwise shows how inadequate your knowledge on the matter is.

 

The appropriate advice to newbs is to avoid excessive rate of descent with insufficient forward airspeed on approach. Plan your approach like you would in a fixed with aircraft and pick an appropriate base and final leg to reach your LZ. You can then terminate to a roll on landing OR a hover - it matters not.

 

If you nail your approach, you will not have any trouble flying this aircraft. It's a joy to fly and having the extra mass and inertia over the UH-1 makes for an extra challenge and greater reward when you get it right!

Adding to the sound advice here, at the transition from ETL (anyone who doesn't know what this is should go read up) to hovering flight there's going to be a pretty decent power increase (collective) required. This is what I believe gets a lot of people in trouble. They are either not ready for it, or they underestimate the power change requirement as you come out of ETL.

Stop to looking for a trick or a cheating to get more fast in learning.In real world this kind of things doesn't exist.

The cheat to land the DCS Hip is learning how to quickstop it.

Once you manage this to a full stop mid air without losing altitude, just repeat it close to the ground and lower collective, ez game :joystick::pilotfly:

Adding to the sound advice here, at the transition from ETL (anyone who doesn't know what this is should go read up) to hovering flight there's going to be a pretty decent power increase (collective) required. This is what I believe gets a lot of people in trouble. They are either not ready for it, or they underestimate the power change requirement as you come out of ETL.

Yep. Of course another benefit of a shallow approach is that you can aim to enter ground effect just before you lose ETL, which make things easier.

Adding to the sound advice here, at the transition from ETL (anyone who doesn't know what this is should go read up) to hovering flight there's going to be a pretty decent power increase (collective) required. This is what I believe gets a lot of people in trouble. They are either not ready for it, or they underestimate the power change requirement as you come out of ETL.

Most of the gotcha about power is the slow spoolup of these engines - even if you notice your descent rate increasing as you drop out of ETL there's not much you can do about it except autorotate if you didn't keep the RPM up. Knowing when and how to "catch" the craft without ballooning or overshooting & having to spiral when you're trying to land in a hurry ( say you're inserting into a hot LZ ) is an acquired skill that also needs constant reinforcement ( in my case, at least ). It's one of the reasons I love the thing, though.

My first post on this thread was to answer to "Backdraft".

and the second for all players who encounter difficulty to manage helos.

If among you are newbies and even pretty confirmed players who want to know what i'm talking about,i could invite you to share one of my sessions that include all exercices due to mastering helicopters.

(real exercices to obtain a licence)

You will see a real difference with the advises generaly shown.And you will find the helicopters more easy to play.

And maybe you could like this kind of PvP mission?:thumbup:

Just send me a private message,i will give you my discord server adress.

I'm not sure what's going on with my set up. I find the mi8 to be incredibly sedate and predictable no matter what i try with it. Compared to what some people's experiences have been, the mi8 has been the easiest of all the helos for me. I've looked to see if I have some sort of "training wheels " option selected somewhere, but can't find any such thing. The huey is like trying to balance a basketball on a traffic cone, it takes constant attention and isn't forgiving of distractions.the gazelle is fun to fly, but it's intent on killing me when I try to land. The shark is somewhere in between..

So the question is is there some option I may have accidentally selected that made the mi8 so stable? I mean, it's appreciated when i do sling load but I wonder sometimes if I'm missing out on something, or if I've simply gotten used to the mi8 enough where it's rather uncomplicated to manage?

I'm not sure what's going on with my set up. I find the mi8 to be incredibly sedate and predictable no matter what i try with it. Compared to what some people's experiences have been, the mi8 has been the easiest of all the helos for me. I've looked to see if I have some sort of "training wheels " option selected somewhere, but can't find any such thing. The huey is like trying to balance a basketball on a traffic cone, it takes constant attention and isn't forgiving of distractions.the gazelle is fun to fly, but it's intent on killing me when I try to land. The shark is somewhere in between..

 

So the question is is there some option I may have accidentally selected that made the mi8 so stable? I mean, it's appreciated when i do sling load but I wonder sometimes if I'm missing out on something, or if I've simply gotten used to the mi8 enough where it's rather uncomplicated to manage?

I hopped on a server which had a mission that was exported by someone who'd somehow got the game mode flight model for the Mi-8 - it was absurdly stable, in fact rapidly got annoyingly stable. The Mi-8 *is* nice & stable, and pretty sedate compared to the light helicopters as you might imagine though. It's just heavy, and you notice it, and has a lot of torque & your feet definitely notice that.

I'm a little suspicious of the Huey honestly, is it really that twitchy IRL?