Flight Model Again V2 - Page 14 - ED Forums


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Old 10-10-2018, 01:40 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post
I do not have any real life heli experience or anything, but I feel that something is not quite right with the FM, or at least how the stick input is processed.

It's a bit hard to explain. If you give any static joystick input you will get an accelerating change of the helicopter attitude until you cancel the joystick input. However, when changing the simulated static stick position using the trim you do not get this effect. This is completely different from how the other 3 helicopters in DCS work.

Do not get me wrong, I personally enjoy flying the Gazelle in the sim and I am ok with it not being completely realistic. However if you are all about realism I suspect you would be a bit disappointed if you bought it.
I don't want to hijack the thread and we briefly touched on this in another thread a short time ago however I have to point out for the cyclic input a "joystick" presents some issues.

Happy to discuss in another thread, perhaps this one.
Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:53 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by FragBum View Post
I don't want to hijack the thread and we briefly touched on this in another thread a short time ago however I have to point out for the cyclic input a "joystick" presents some issues.

Happy to discuss in another thread, perhaps this one.
"parts are falling off the french helicopter.. IT IS A MISSILE YOU IMBECILE"\\
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:56 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Ifikratis View Post
Sorry for bringing this up again, but I'm reading carefully all similar threads trying to find out if its worth it (for me) to buy the Gazelle. I am fan of absolute realism in FM and thus this topic is of paramount importance for my decision.

Reading this thread I can say that particularly the last two posts summarize what has been said. As already pointed out by EagleEye, we have been told by the developer that the SAS is on:

a) As soon as the AP and gyro are on
b) As soon as the battery is on - always

The part of the manual posted by iFoxRomeo indicates that SAS can be 'cut off' and flight can continue without SAS. Now, this seems to be a solid argument to me and a flaw in the aircraft's FM by the developer as I see it.

So, what I get as a conclusion from all this is the following: The developer provides a flight model that includes a SAS stabilization which is not decoupled in the coding process. So the coding in the Gazelle does not include a separate SAS script that kicks in when enabled (not talking about hover), but the FM itself is tuned to work as if there is a gimbal (SAS) in the controls somehow. This is after input of the French Gazelle pilots who said this is how it flies and not through research in the mechanics and physics behind the systems. Please understand that I am not bushing the product, I just want to know what it is and what should I expect to get for the price.

I would think that the best way to program this is to code it from the inside out, starting with the rotor physics equations and then adding the specific stability control systems on top of it, coupled or decoupled according to the official documentation. If this information was not available it would be good to know and thus the flight model was based on verbal guidance. This is what I have got from all the threads that I have read and please if I'm wrong I'd be glad to be corrected. I'm not bushing the product but if I pay for it I deserve to know what it is and where the FM is coming from.

Finally, I would be really glad to get a system explanation by the developer that includes manual references and not ''the French pilots think its fine''. Then, I would buy the module the same minute. Maybe I'm picky but lets say I'm too sensitive to FM realism in DCS, I guess you can give that to someone, given the level of accuracy which is currently possible in DCS. Thanks for your time.
This is totally my opinion too. The Gazelle flight model is probably build using a relatively simple code in which some of the coupling are either non-existant or way too heavily damped.

What makes good test pilots different from average pilots is that they have the analysis capabilities and the engineering background to take a step back from what they see in a simulation. Even in the industry, getting constructive feedback from experienced pilots can be useless if steps are not taken to compare and substantiate the raw feelings with hard data. To defend Polychop, though, I do not think there are any relevant sources for the Gazelle flight dynamics.
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