Change Wording: "Set SPI Generator" instead of "Make SPI" - Page 8 - ED Forums
 


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Old 09-12-2019, 10:04 AM   #71
QuiGon
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Shagrat is right. The SPI is constantly updating, even if the SPI generating sensor is not SOI.
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Originally Posted by Dagger71 View Post
Quigon I thought you knew better
Knew better? How? Is the SPI not constantly getting updated or what?
You said it yourself that it is constantly getting updated here:

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Originally Posted by Dagger71 View Post
What do you mean by As for the "snapshot theory," It is a point in 3D space that continuously gets updated./ I've repeated that over and over.

That is how it works!!!
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:08 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by LJQCN101 View Post
I think the proper usage is "make something SPI", while "something" being an object/target /coordinate/point. i.e. make hooked object SPI, make last markpoint SPI or make HDC SPI. (These three are from the DoD manual).

So for me I'm good with make TGP track-point SPI, make MAV target SPI, make TDC SPI, etc.
But I personally won't call it make TGP SPI, make MAV SPI or make HUD SPI to avoid confusion.

PS: I also think you can use 'slew/update SPI' from the F16 MLU manual.



Thank you for the moment of sanity!!!
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by LJQCN101 View Post
I think the proper usage is "make something SPI", while "something" being an object/target /coordinate/point. i.e. make hooked object SPI, make last markpoint SPI or make HDC SPI. (These three are from the DoD manual).

So for me I'm good with make TGP track-point SPI, make MAV target SPI, make TDC SPI, etc.
But I personally won't call it make TGP SPI, make MAV SPI or make HUD SPI to avoid confusion.

PS: I also think you can use 'slew/update SPI' from the F16 MLU manual.
"Make SOI SPI" would work also. Just "Make SPI" without the "something" is misleading...
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:22 AM   #74
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I would also like to point out that with "Last Mark SPI" etc. we talk about the manual and real proceedings of a suite 8, where as we have a suite 3 simulated.
The guy explicitly explained that a lot of the stuff including HOTAS changed in the decade in-between...
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:23 AM   #75
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"Make SOI SPI" would work also. Just "Make SPI" without the "something" is misleading...
But make SOI SPI would be wrong, as the SOI itself is not the SPI. The SOI (TGP, TAD, ...) is just providing the SPI (a 3D position).

What LJQCN101 said is, that you could say "Make a 3D position (a target/object/coordinate/point) SPI", which would be correct.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:38 AM   #76
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But make SOI SPI would be wrong, as the SOI itself is not the SPI. The SOI (TGP, TAD, ...) is just providing the SPI (a 3D position).

What LJQCN101 said is, that you could say "Make a 3D position (a target/object/coordinate/point) SPI", which would be correct.
But that is not what TMS fwd long does.
That is why "Make SPI" isn't very helpful.
The selected sensor does designate the 3D-Position and it continues to do so when it changes its LOS, or in case of the Steerpoint switches to another WP/MP. This does not require to "Make SPI" again.
Basically TMS fwd long selects the sensor which now designates the coordinates of the SPI, until another SPI designator is selected. Page 400/401 of the DCS manual lists all possible SPI designators... and yes, SPI designators is the term used in the manual written by ED.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:22 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Dagger71 View Post
Do you know the definition of the word generate????? It is create/make/produce!!!
Well an A/C generator does not become an A/C creator.

A portable generator is not the same as a portable maker.

A diesel generator is not the same as a diesel producer.

But figuring out the meaning of words is a step in the right direction that you're taking. If only you understood them.

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I'm glad you finally understand what I was saying!!!
I honestly don't know whether I'm amused or terrified that you still think I wasn't aware of that at any point during our discussion.

If you could point out what exactly got you confused, I might try to use better wording in the future. But so far, it seems you create your own version of reality and then confront others with it. Are you a politician?

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I'll accept it as set spi, generate SPI, make SPI
I take it your understanding is:

1. When TMS Forward Long gets pressed, the SPI is updated to a new coordinate, generated from the sensor that is SOI at that moment.

2. That same SOI may further update the SPI under certain circumstances.

It's okay to think of it like that, and it may well be how the system works internally. At the same time, it's more complicated than it needs to be.

1. When TMS Forward Long gets pressed, the SOI becomes SPI Generator.

2. From that point on, this sensor generates the SPI.

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I won't respond to the rest of your condescending remarks, because the US Airforce manual is very clear on what is a SPI therefore I don't need you to continue to explain how your definition supersedes the US Airforce documentation on the subject.
This may come as a shocking surprise, but I'm talking about DCS, and have been from the very beginning. Do you understand that? This is a discussion about the DCS A-10C and its manual. I do not claim to have any insight into US Air Force training or operations for the A-10C, and while I would love to hear from them about this topic, the only person that keeps talking about the USAF is you.

shagrat explained to you several times: The controller layout in the manual comes far before the explanations of SPI and SOI. We don't have a trainer or instructor in DCS that hammers the proper concept into our minds until we could lay it out when woken up in the middle of the night.

"Make SPI" is very easy to misunderstand, and is positioned badly and without context.

At that spot, "Set SPI Generator" or "Set SOI as SPI Generator" or "Set SPI Designator" or "Set SOI as SPI Designator" would confuse exactly one person on this planet: You. I believe most other virtual pilots would gain an instinctive understanding that the SPI is not a fixed point that only ever gets updated when TMS Forward Long gets pressed again, but that it is indeed updated/generated from the SPI Generator.

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Originally Posted by LJQCN101 View Post
I think the proper usage is "make something SPI", while "something" being an object/target /coordinate/point. i.e. make hooked object SPI, make last markpoint SPI or make HDC SPI. (These three are from the DoD manual).

So for me I'm good with make TGP track-point SPI, make MAV target SPI, make TDC SPI, etc.
I think that's okay-ish.

However, the aircraft and its sensors don't really identify objects or targets. The SPI really is just a point in space (no, Dagger, I did not change my mind about it. I would have given this same explanation without ever reading any of your posts. Just so we're clear.). In case of tracking an object with sufficient contrast in the TGP, the SPI itself still is not the object, it's just a point that is (hopefully) co-located with the object. As soon as the contrast or masking makes tracking the object impossible, SPI and object might not be co-located any longer. So thinking of it as "make TGP track-point SPI" is not really what happens, and thinking about it this way could easily lead to unexpected results.

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Originally Posted by shagrat View Post
"Make SOI SPI" would work also. Just "Make SPI" without the "something" is misleading...
Same as above. The sensor does not become the point. The sensor becomes the generator, or the generator source, of the point. So "Make SOI SPI" is, again, okay-ish and better than "Make SPI", but I don't think it's actually a good description of what happens.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:10 PM   #78
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So "Make SOI SPI" is, again, okay-ish and better than "Make SPI", but I don't think it's actually a good description of what happens.
I advised "Make selected sensor SPI designator" as a compromise internally, to have consistency between the TMS overview and the List of SPI designators in the chapter "Sensor Point of Interest (SPI)" in pages 400 and 401. Will take a while to be discussed. I promote an additional reference to the SPI-Chapter for details, as well. Let's see what the bigwigs think
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:33 PM   #79
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Well an A/C generator does not become an A/C creator.

A portable generator is not the same as a portable maker.
A diesel generator is not the same as a diesel producer.

Are you reeally this stubborn that you will even argue the meaning of English
words.


Are you serious now??
Please tell me the english definition of generate.

YES an AC electrical generator , is a producer of AC electricity!
A portable electrical generator is a portable electricity producer!!
A diesel powered generator produces/creates/makes electricity!!
They all PRODUCE electricity!! That is BY the very definition of the word generator!!!

So this is where we are, some guys who speak english as second language schooling the rest of us on the english language. This misunderstanding of the english language is at the very essence of this entire discussion. It is plain to see!


I'm bowing out of this ridiculous argument!

Last edited by Dagger71; 09-12-2019 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:40 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by LJQCN101 View Post
I think the proper usage is "make something SPI", while "something" being an object/target /coordinate/point. i.e. make hooked object SPI, make last markpoint SPI or make HDC SPI. (These three are from the DoD manual).

So for me I'm good with make TGP track-point SPI, make MAV target SPI, make TDC SPI, etc.
But I personally won't call it make TGP SPI, make MAV SPI or make HUD SPI to avoid confusion.

PS: I also think you can use 'slew/update SPI' from the F16 MLU manual.

It's a losing argument as you can see. You can be Fairchild Republic engineer who designed the entire avionics package and they will still say you are wrong. They even admitted they don't give a Sh@t about what the official manual says!!

Last edited by Dagger71; 09-12-2019 at 08:45 PM.
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