Valve Index Hands On

It also appears (apparently, from Reddit reports) that those ordering individual items are being shuffled back in the queue, and those ordering the full kit are getting priority.

Whilst some customers have received orders such as controllers only, they seem to be the minority, with many who ordered only the headset still waiting - even those who ordered it early doors.

I reserved on May 5th. I see that the US is pretty much caught up on full kit orders - people are ordering and getting their kit within a couple of weeks (one even within days), whilst the EU has just moved on to May 4th onwards reservations - seems like all of the reserved kits after then are now being offered for payment.

The lighthouse 2 units have been in stock for immediate purchase for a while now.

Are you in the UK?

Nope. U.S. California. That would seem to fit the comment above about U.S. full kit orders getting caught up..like I said I was really surprised (and wasn’t really planning on spending the $$$ until autumn LOL)

Just got the mail - mine's being delivered tomorrow. Not bad, that - collected by GLS just yesterday, so 2 days delivery. That would be about right for Netherlands to UK, but the other hardware I've ordered from Steam in the past usually took at least a week to arrive.

I'll post if I have any issues - have to get my 2060 overclocked tomorrow - was missing some dll files before so Afterburner wouldn't work, but I reckon they must be on my system by now, with all the stuff I installed since yesterday.

How does this headset compare to the Rift S ?

Cockpit clarity is actually pretty good with the Rift S, however still struggling with seeing distant objects.

How would the Index perform with the Rig below ?.

- 100% smooth tracking in all situations

- half a million more pixels per eye

- integrated class A nearfield audio

- better luminance and better sRGB color levels

- wider FOV, especially vertical with edge to edge clarity through stacked lenses

- better comfort, better weight distribution

- higher resolution stereo camera pass-through in color

- variable IPD setting

- variable eye relief setting

On a 1080ti - it all depends on your SS and graphics settings. It's about 30% more pixels to push.

- 100% smooth tracking in all situations

- half a million more pixels per eye

- integrated class A nearfield audio

- better luminance and better sRGB color levels

- wider FOV, especially vertical with edge to edge clarity through stacked lenses

- better comfort, better weight distribution

- higher resolution stereo camera pass-through in color

- variable IPD setting

- variable eye relief setting

 

 

On a 1080ti - it all depends on your SS and graphics settings. It's about 30% more pixels to push.

Compared to what?

Wow - mine arrived midday, despite the tracking saying it hadn't left the depot.

Had a panic moment when I saw a huge gash in the side of the box, where it had obviously been dropped against a hard straight edge. Luckily, no signs of any damage inside - not even to the Index box itself.

Now my nostrils are filled with that lovely new-headset aroma :)

It's the 3rd time this year - hopefully this one will be the keeper.

@Gunnergolly - I'll tell you when I've got it working. The Rift S had a good image quality, but fine SDE was apparent and that FoV was the killer (IPD 69). Would have kept it but for the FoV. Don't think I'll have that issue with the Index.

Been mucking about with the Knuckles for while, like a child at Christmas! My left stick clicks vertically, but not any other way (how it's supposed to be, according to Valve) and my right one clicks down, but also clicks when pushed backwards and down.

PS - won't be testing it or even setting it up for a while, yet - it's far too hot and humid here atm.

Thanks for your replies.

 

@Gunnergolly - I'll tell you when I've got it working.

I'll look forward to hearing from you :thumbup:...

@Gunnergolly - I'll tell you when I've got it working. The Rift S had a good image quality, but fine SDE was apparent and that FoV was the killer (IPD 69). Would have kept it but for the FoV. Don't think I'll have that issue with the Index.

I’m in the same boat, my Index arrives tomorrow and I’m hoping the adjustable eye relief and IPD improve what was a solid but flawed Rift S experience largely due to my similar IPD.

I’ll be tinkering with it once it arrives and post up some comparison thoughts.

- 100% smooth tracking in all situations

- half a million more pixels per eye

- integrated class A nearfield audio

- better luminance and better sRGB color levels

- wider FOV, especially vertical with edge to edge clarity through stacked lenses

- better comfort, better weight distribution

- higher resolution stereo camera pass-through in color

- variable IPD setting

- variable eye relief setting

 

 

On a 1080ti - it all depends on your SS and graphics settings. It's about 30% more pixels to push.

25% more to be accurate.

But what does matter about clarity is also pixel per degree (PPD).

So if you’re increasing FoV, you have to increase resolution, but it doesn’t mean you’re getting that much improvement in PPD.

@jojo Sorry for being inaccurate.

Index's per eye panel is not square, it's a rectangle - 1600 vertical and 1440 horizontal. The vertical FOV increase is higher than vertical. There is much more going on: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/deep-dive/fov

All those methods combined, especially the eye relief setting lead to much better usage of visible display area, which is effectively an improvement of PPD compared to other HMD's with 1440p panels.

Higher vertical FOV combined with clarity is a perfect feature for cockpit sims.

So here we are - everything physically set-up for the Index, having simply unscrewed my two Rift sensors (at 180° to each other, in the ceiling corners) and screwed in the Lighthouse emitters, powered them up and the headset and I'm sat here, not putting the headset on and having a jolly because I'm covered with sweat, even with a 16" fan blowing at me.

Hopefully, it'll get better soon, and I can have a go... frustrating.

PS:

Okay - I went for it and soooo glad I did! :D

When I tried Rift S I was a little excited at what might be, and felt a little deflated at the set-up process. It was very easy - so it didn't feel like anything special. I wasn't convinced about Touch v2 and so wasn't excited about that, either.

The image was so much better than CV1, I was pleased. SDE was visible, but not overtly so, so no worries. The FoV, however, was dismal. In CV1 it was like looking through a large letterbox but in S it was like squished binoculars (and not the TV version!), like the Oculus logo, vertical.

Another thing I didn't like was the fitting - when I set it so it wouldn't move when I turned my head, it was actually a bit painfull (actually I have a tender skull at the rear due to wearing a CPAP mask every night, so this is an individual thing, but CV1 doesn't give me problems with it).

The FoV and the dreadful audio was a game breaker and it went back.

Quest came next. This was very impressive - although it felt a lot heavier. Unfortunately, though, it didn't like my wifi set up and it went back, too. Though it was noticably heavier, it was fairly comfy, and definitely comfier than the S. I know many people like the S headstrap, but I don't.

Now comes the Index. Here it is:

O :shocking: M F G !!!!

Now this feels like an upgrade :D

I pronounce myself extremely happy and most content!

I immediately noticed just how heavy it is - far more than any headset up to now - but once it was sorted (and I spent a lot of time getting it just right) it was less obvious and once I was in VR I forgot about it. Set up was a bit of a PITA, but not much worse than CV1 - especially as, after a successful firmware update, the left controller lost all tracking. I could see my hand in VR and could see my individual fingers moving accurately, but the controller was stuck in place.

A reboot of SteamVR seemed to fix that.

I normally wear prescription lenses and bought some with a headband for use with the Index - but even without them the image just takes my breath away.

I'm having an issue with DCS World, where the GUI is just not showing up - so all I've seen so far is the inside of the hangar, with the Flanker sat there looking all sexy and tempting.

So no flight report as yet. The SDE, again, is definitely visible, but it's so fine it really is not an issue of any kind and is only noticable on light surfaces - and then only if you want to see it.

So I will try and get the GUI up and spend the afternoon testing and report back. In SteamVR home it looked awesomely clear and bright and -

"washed out colours"? Nope!

"Poor blacks?" Nope!

"Glare?" Nope!

Some minor light waving about every now and again that I barely even noticed - maybe that's what people have been calling "glare" and complaining about? I don't know - but if that's it, I think they are being very pedantic.

I wound the lenses in as far as they would go, and the FoV is just great. Vertically and horizontally. Steam had set the resolution to 100% and the refresh rate at 90hz. I'll have a play with that after I've checked everything out with current settings.

My justification for shelling out nearly £1000 on this headset was that it would serve me for several years, through a couple of major PC upgrades, which would improve it's performance as we go. I currently have zero regrets. This baby is a keeper! :)

btw - the Lighthouses do whine, and I did hear it to start with, before it slipped into obscurity.

I pronounce myself well chuffed! (get the message? :music_whistling:)

:thumbup:

@jojo Sorry for being inaccurate.

 

Index's per eye panel is not square, it's a rectangle - 1600 vertical and 1440 horizontal. The vertical FOV increase is higher than vertical. There is much more going on: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/deep-dive/fov

All those methods combined, especially the eye relief setting lead to much better usage of visible display area, which is effectively an improvement of PPD compared to other HMD's with 1440p panels.

Higher vertical FOV combined with clarity is a perfect feature for cockpit sims.

No problem, you weren't that far off.

Just I'm doing math these days to try to assess what my hardware can handle compared to CV1.

I was just pointing out that increasing the pixel count by 25% and increasing the FoV simultaneously doesn't increase PPD by 25, and your link doesn't contradict that.

By the way their drawings of eye FoV Vs headset show that each eye has a bigger FoV than the screens. So it looks like the eye relief plays a bigger role in sweet spot than really the FoV.

But I'm not sure, you're better placed to tell me.

Overall I'm "blessed" to have an average Caucasian face with average IPD, so that kind of setting doesn't makes me want to pay twice the price.

But I recognize that for some people this is a must have :thumbup:

Okay - I went for it and soooo glad I did! :D

 

When I tried Rift S I was a little excited at what might be, and felt a little deflated at the set-up process. It was very easy - so it didn't feel like anything special. I wasn't convinced about Touch v2 and so wasn't excited about that, either.

 

The image was so much better than CV1, I was pleased. SDE was visible, but not overtly so, so no worries. The FoV, however, was dismal. In CV1 it was like looking through a large letterbox but in S it was like squished binoculars (and not the TV version!), like the Oculus logo, vertical.

Another thing I didn't like was the fitting - when I set it so it wouldn't move when I turned my head, it was actually a bit painfull (actually I have a tender skull at the rear due to wearing a CPAP mask every night, so this is an individual thing, but CV1 doesn't give me problems with it).

The FoV and the dreadful audio was a game breaker and it went back.

 

Quest came next. This was very impressive - although it felt a lot heavier. Unfortunately, though, it didn't like my wifi set up and it went back, too. Though it was noticably heavier, it was fairly comfy, and definitely comfier than the S. I know many people like the S headstrap, but I don't.

 

Now comes the Index. Here it is:

 

O :shocking: M F G !!!!

 

Now this feels like an upgrade :D

 

I pronounce myself extremely happy and most content!

 

I immediately noticed just how heavy it is - far more than any headset up to now - but once it was sorted (and I spent a lot of time getting it just right) it was less obvious and once I was in VR I forgot about it. Set up was a bit of a PITA, but not much worse than CV1 - especially as, after a successful firmware update, the left controller lost all tracking. I could see my hand in VR and could see my individual fingers moving accurately, but the controller was stuck in place.

 

A reboot of SteamVR seemed to fix that.

 

I normally wear prescription lenses and bought some with a headband for use with the Index - but even without them the image just takes my breath away.

 

I'm having an issue with DCS World, where the GUI is just not showing up - so all I've seen so far is the inside of the hangar, with the Flanker sat there looking all sexy and tempting.

 

So no flight report as yet. The SDE, again, is definitely visible, but it's so fine it really is not an issue of any kind and is only noticable on light surfaces - and then only if you want to see it.

 

So I will try and get the GUI up and spend the afternoon testing and report back. In SteamVR home it looked awesomely clear and bright and -

 

"washed out colours"? Nope!

 

"Poor blacks?" Nope!

 

"Glare?" Nope!

 

Some minor light waving about every now and again that I barely even noticed - maybe that's what people have been calling "glare" and complaining about? I don't know - but if that's it, I think they are being very pedantic.

 

I wound the lenses in as far as they would go, and the FoV is just great. Vertically and horizontally. Steam had set the resolution to 100% and the refresh rate at 90hz. I'll have a play with that after I've checked everything out with current settings.

 

My justification for shelling out nearly £1000 on this headset was that it would serve me for several years, through a couple of major PC upgrades, which would improve it's performance as we go. I currently have zero regrets. This baby is a keeper! :)

 

btw - the Lighthouses do whine, and I did hear it to start with, before it slipped into obscurity.

 

I pronounce myself well chuffed! (get the message? :music_whistling:)

 

:thumbup:

 

Well this is certainly encouraging news! Well apart from the DCS main menu oddity. Good stuff!

@Brixmis

Congrats on the best HMD currently available! :)

The main menu will appear in front of the HMD when you start the game. Mine is lying on my desk most of the time, when i sit down in my gaming seat i have to use the reset HMD position feature from DCS to bring the menu in front of me. It also helps with fine adjusting the cockpit position.

This is something I can’t figure out: why does Steam VT at 100% doesn’t equal to na I’ve resolution ?

In the screenshot above the rendered resolution actually x1.4 :huh:

Okay got up in the air - good news, bad news.

I wrote recently in the Rift CV1 thread, about how fantastic the performance was - to my amazement - with the Su-25 A/A mission in the Persian Gulf. It's a 1v1 dogfight mission over Dubai. I thought it would be a good idea to start off with that mission, as it was freshest in my mind for comparison.

It was dire. Really, it was very stuttery and the SDE was annoying me. The internal framerate counter showed 20fps.

I jumped into the AV-8BNA Pleasure Flight mission. Like many missions made by the devs or their sub-contractors, there is lots of AI around, which can drag performance down in VR. It was a nightmare.

Complete stutterfest, lots of warping and that awful SDE again. FPS was struggling around 20 again.

I stuttered around to the runway and took off. Once I got to over 2,000ft the framerates improved to 30ish, but there was lots of warping with ground objects.

I loaded up the Hornet air radar quali mission over Dubai (at FL200) and that ran a lot better - but still not that good, and yes - that SDE was bothering me again. However, I also noticed that it was an intermittent thing. I could sit and stare at the same piece of desert - or cockpit - and see the SDE clear as a pattern painted over it - then it would vanish. In a few seconds it would be back. Confusing - but a couple of possible explanations.

Anyway, frames were still reported as 20fps.

So I went to the settings. Reduced lotsa stuff. I'd had the ground clutter at zero anyway, but I reduced the detail radius from maximum to 10,000. I switched off all MSAA (had been on x4) and AF (had been on x16), that cockpit light setting was switched off, and the water quality reduced from medium to low.

I also reduced the in-game IPD from 1.5 to 1.1

What a difference! Okay, the FPS was 'only' 45 now - but it was a rock solid 45fps through all those missions again.

I don't get why that SDE is bothering me so much. It's far better than the CV1, but for some reason it's really nagging at me all the time.

So - yes, it's great (and I also altered the FoV to min and back to max - didn't make a massive difference, but max is better cos it feels more natural). But settings will have to be tweaked.

I overclocked my 2060 yesterday in prep for this - but it obviously isn't enough.

If you have a 2080 or Ti you're going to love it, and probably with a 1080Ti, too. I can't afford those, but I'm happy enough.

End settings (not very clear, unfortunately):

@jojo search and read about rendertarget for VR HMD's, it'll explain everything.

The rendertarget is also what got Brixmis in the back, his former setup with a Rift used to run DCS in a much lower resolution than now with the Index. So the first thing should be lowering all resolution and antialiasing settings in the game (in game PD is a SS multiplier on top of SteamVR's SS setting! At 1.5 you were running a way too high setting for your 2060). So basically it's best to set ingame PD to 1.0 because SteamVR's supersampler is a bit faster than the internal of DCS. Next would be checking what the standard SS setting under "Video" is and the same under Applications (DCS.exe). Here you can define 2 stages of SS one general setting and one application specific (downsampling could be an option for demanding titles). Another shot could be testing 80Hz refresh rate for lower hardware such as the 2060.

@jojo search and read about rendertarget for VR HMD's, it'll explain everything.

Thanks.

So to make it short: Steam VR is applying a default Super Sampling to reach a render target, and the % is based on this render target resolution.

And since I see inconsistencies between headsets, it looks like the applied super sampling is different depending on headset.

Am I right ?

Okay got up in the air - good news, bad news.

 

I wrote recently in the Rift CV1 thread, about how fantastic the performance was - to my amazement - with the Su-25 A/A mission in the Persian Gulf. It's a 1v1 dogfight mission over Dubai. I thought it would be a good idea to start off with that mission, as it was freshest in my mind for comparison.

 

It was dire. Really, it was very stuttery and the SDE was annoying me. The internal framerate counter showed 20fps.

 

I jumped into the AV-8BNA Pleasure Flight mission. Like many missions made by the devs or their sub-contractors, there is lots of AI around, which can drag performance down in VR. It was a nightmare.

Complete stutterfest, lots of warping and that awful SDE again. FPS was struggling around 20 again.

I stuttered around to the runway and took off. Once I got to over 2,000ft the framerates improved to 30ish, but there was lots of warping with ground objects.

 

I loaded up the Hornet air radar quali mission over Dubai (at FL200) and that ran a lot better - but still not that good, and yes - that SDE was bothering me again. However, I also noticed that it was an intermittent thing. I could sit and stare at the same piece of desert - or cockpit - and see the SDE clear as a pattern painted over it - then it would vanish. In a few seconds it would be back. Confusing - but a couple of possible explanations.

 

Anyway, frames were still reported as 20fps.

 

So I went to the settings. Reduced lotsa stuff. I'd had the ground clutter at zero anyway, but I reduced the detail radius from maximum to 10,000. I switched off all MSAA (had been on x4) and AF (had been on x16), that cockpit light setting was switched off, and the water quality reduced from medium to low.

I also reduced the in-game IPD from 1.5 to 1.1

 

What a difference! Okay, the FPS was 'only' 45 now - but it was a rock solid 45fps through all those missions again.

 

I don't get why that SDE is bothering me so much. It's far better than the CV1, but for some reason it's really nagging at me all the time.

 

So - yes, it's great (and I also altered the FoV to min and back to max - didn't make a massive difference, but max is better cos it feels more natural). But settings will have to be tweaked.

 

I overclocked my 2060 yesterday in prep for this - but it obviously isn't enough.

 

If you have a 2080 or Ti you're going to love it, and probably with a 1080Ti, too. I can't afford those, but I'm happy enough.

 

End settings (not very clear, unfortunately):

 

 

So have you tried 80 frames to lock 40 and gain some settings headroom with the 2060 ?

@jojo ...close

No VR HMD drives it's panel resolution by default, they all have to use a higher rendertarget (the "image" that the game delivers) because it has to be predistorted by the VR compositor (VR driver or "VR management software") to counter the distortion and chromatic abberation of the lenses. The VR compositor "prepares" each image for each eye and "sends" it to the HMD.

Okay got up in the air - good news, bad news.

 

I wrote recently in the Rift CV1 thread, about how fantastic the performance was - to my amazement - with the Su-25 A/A mission in the Persian Gulf. It's a 1v1 dogfight mission over Dubai. I thought it would be a good idea to start off with that mission, as it was freshest in my mind for comparison.

 

It was dire. Really, it was very stuttery and the SDE was annoying me. The internal framerate counter showed 20fps.

 

I jumped into the AV-8BNA Pleasure Flight mission. Like many missions made by the devs or their sub-contractors, there is lots of AI around, which can drag performance down in VR. It was a nightmare.

Complete stutterfest, lots of warping and that awful SDE again. FPS was struggling around 20 again.

I stuttered around to the runway and took off. Once I got to over 2,000ft the framerates improved to 30ish, but there was lots of warping with ground objects.

 

I loaded up the Hornet air radar quali mission over Dubai (at FL200) and that ran a lot better - but still not that good, and yes - that SDE was bothering me again. However, I also noticed that it was an intermittent thing. I could sit and stare at the same piece of desert - or cockpit - and see the SDE clear as a pattern painted over it - then it would vanish. In a few seconds it would be back. Confusing - but a couple of possible explanations.

 

Anyway, frames were still reported as 20fps.

 

So I went to the settings. Reduced lotsa stuff. I'd had the ground clutter at zero anyway, but I reduced the detail radius from maximum to 10,000. I switched off all MSAA (had been on x4) and AF (had been on x16), that cockpit light setting was switched off, and the water quality reduced from medium to low.

I also reduced the in-game IPD from 1.5 to 1.1

 

What a difference! Okay, the FPS was 'only' 45 now - but it was a rock solid 45fps through all those missions again.

 

I don't get why that SDE is bothering me so much. It's far better than the CV1, but for some reason it's really nagging at me all the time.

 

So - yes, it's great (and I also altered the FoV to min and back to max - didn't make a massive difference, but max is better cos it feels more natural). But settings will have to be tweaked.

 

I overclocked my 2060 yesterday in prep for this - but it obviously isn't enough.

 

If you have a 2080 or Ti you're going to love it, and probably with a 1080Ti, too. I can't afford those, but I'm happy enough.

 

End settings (not very clear, unfortunately):

 

 

You'll have to experiment, but I can pass along a few things that worked for me for Odyssey and now Reverb:

1. PD at 1. Basically you're going to let the SteamVR SS handle more.

2. I enable MSAA 2x and turn down ground textures, completely turn off shadows. The MSAA for me was that I was still getting 'jaggies' - I need to retest this with Reverb, I had left it on for O.

3. I set my SS - for Odyssey I had like 200%, for Reverb, 100-104%.

Rest might be resolution. ie. Odyssey (OG) I had SDE. Reverb, extremely little and if so really unnoticeable. Index is less resolution than Reverb, more than O, so I would expect you'd see some SDE ?

I get mostly a rock solid 45 fps. (I am using the auto, motionvector) setting which 'caps' it at 45 even though when I turn that off, I'm actually getting more like 60 fps I believe - need to double check. I get better/same performance from my Reverb than my Odyssey I think

9700k OC to 5, 1080ti.

For optimal performance, do not let SteamVR manage your rendering solution because it doesn’t work well with more demanding games such as DCS. Always turn off auto sampling and set rendering to 100% first and adjust it from there. Quit out and restart the game every time you change rendering resolution.

@jojo ...close

 

No VR HMD drives it's panel resolution by default, they all have to use a higher rendertarget (the "image" that the game delivers) because it has to be predistorted by the VR compositor (VR driver or "VR management software") to counter the distortion and chromatic abberation of the lenses. The VR compositor "prepares" each image for each eye and "sends" it to the HMD.

Understand what you mean ...

Once I have read, that there is always a difference in native resolution and the render target resolution of the compositor to compensate a range of IPD values.

So far I think, as long as the render target is in anyway increased, there should be no issue with predistortion, warping, different IPD etc., but honestly there is still a lot of mystery for me to understand the whole correlations.