[LATER IN EARLY ACCESS] A-G radar mode – will there ever be one?

Sorry but...Did you not realize you were opting to buy into an Early Access Module?

Is the F-15 early access too?

Is the F-18, Mig-29, A-10...

Do they have A-G radar ?!

I can only speak for the F18 and say ‘it should do’

Is the F-15 early access too?

Is the F-18, Mig-29, A-10...

 

Do they have A-G radar ?!

No, but the A-10, F-15 and MiG-29 don't have an A2G radar IRL either

A-G radar mode – will there ever be one?

No...no there won't be. DCS are creating a highly realistic simulation of the F-16 Fighting Falcon but will not be including any A-G radar functionality.....

You know when people say there are no stupid questions....they lie. :thumbup:

 

You know when people say there are no stupid questions....they lie. :thumbup:

You know when people say "no one loves a kiss ass..." they don't lie :thumbup:

Its hilarious how many folks get triggered when someone asks a relevant question on these forums about promised features....

"How dare you not blindly worship at the altar of ED and pledge that all is perfect" :lol:

You know when people say "no one loves a kiss ass..." they don't lie :thumbup:

 

Its hilarious how many folks get triggered when someone asks a relevant question on these forums about promised features....

 

"How dare you not blindly worship at the altar of ED and pledge that all is perfect" :lol:

It's because it's a stupid question and wasn't meant to be a genuine question but was intended to highlight a known shortcoming and then bringing in all the other little trolls.

There's a difference between an innocent, genuine question and being an ass.

This thread is the latter.

You are missing the point.

5 years is an unacceptable period for developing the radar program.

No, it is not when you need to build ground up everything in the simulator to support it!

Still it's all just code! Not real life radar.

So is the real radar as well, its core is just a code....

People are writing code - they are not developing a real radar, which by the way takes less than 5 years to develop.

They are programming the logic, how to simulate the radar emissions and detection. It is not easy if you do not go by the cheating manner like other games does it, but it is very complex stuff when you need to actually perform like a raytracing to get the results, without using a raytracing.

I don't buy all this talk about the "engineers" working on the radar development.

They don't - these are programmers.

As you start to close in insulting toward ED, I just point out that "Engineer" doesn't mean what you think it means. Engineers covers over 700 different professions, and among them are as well computer science engineers, a people whom job is to write computer programming codes, languages etc. That is something that depends from the university where you study the profession, is it a university or in applied science university. Other is more about research and discussions, while other is about applying the theories in practice and developing them through research.

ED has physicist, mathematicians and all kind other professionals hired for their company, they are not all writing code but actually doing math. Just like they have visual artists and graphical artists doing their jobs, as well modelers etc doing theirs. They even have someone wiping their office floors and cleaning their restrooms, but that you can guess that it ain't a engineer (or who knows?!)...

You know when people say there are no stupid questions....they lie. :thumbup:

There are no stupid questions; there are just a lot of inquisitive ID10Ts. ;)

Which is not the point.

 

The point here is that you should stop being so protective.

Sometimes, an outsider, or a XXX troll as you say, may see things some guys just take for granted.

 

I don't buy all this talk about the "engineers" working on the radar development.

They don't - these are programmers.

 

If you keep justifying them and be so sympathetic they will never deliver it.

 

For all the money people spent on this GAME i'd expect more.

Then feel free to leave and go back to the other sim and enjoy your fantasy systems, frankenviper development and every 4 years updates

It's because it's a stupid question and wasn't meant to be a genuine question but was intended to highlight a known shortcoming and then bringing in all the other little trolls.

 

There's a difference between an innocent, genuine question and being an ass.

 

This thread is the latter.

So basically you just got all in your feelings and got offended someone questioned your sacred cow, please tell me more....

The OP mentioned he's had DCS for a couple months, whether that is true or not, who knows, I try not to presume motive just because I disagree with someones view. A/G radar is an advertised feature of the Viper and Hornet, heaven forbid someone just drop $80 on a module and have the nerve to inquire of the status of said feature... the gall of some people ;)

I've been in sales successfully for 30 years. We have sayings like "sell the sizzle, not the steak", or "bait and switch" or "tell the truth but not the whole truth" (unless you're asked specifically). I mention this to all of you crying "Early Access"!!! It's clear to me that "Early Access" is the gender neutral replacement term for Ponzi Scheme.

In a reply to a reddit post recently the CEO stated clearly that ED cannot survive as a company without the early access program. What he did not mention is the ever mounting backlog of features customers are still waiting to receive for modules purchased 4 years ago. With every EA release that backlog grows.

I'm not dissapointed with the EA Viper release, after two years of flying VR exclusively with an ED product I knew it would be bare bones. I didn't care, I wanted to fly the Viper in VR. What I am dissapointed in is how we the purchasers of these half baked modules are treated. I've been a part of the community of that other Viper sim for 20 years. I would gladly give them a thousand bucks cash or pay a $100 per month subscription fee if I thought for a second it would help them implement VR. Why? Because they are miracle workers. Because they care about the product. Because they are the Benchmark. For ten years everyone said you couldn't export MFD's, gauges etc., then they figured out how to do it. The challenge of implementing VR to a 20 year old software is exponentially harder but if they figure it out, do you really see anyone being loyal to a company that takes your money and then redicules you for being a sucker? No, the only thing that keeps me around DCS is VR. The very second I have another option I'm gone. Why in the world would anyone give their money to a company that treats them with contempt?

Well, I'm off to pick up a new drum set!

In case I'm banned, its been fun!

For the people complaining it took less time to design the real radars: Hughes (F/A-18 ) and Westinghouse (F-16) are/were multi-billion dollar aerospace companies with military contract that all but guaranteeing hundreds, if not thousands, of multi-million dollar units sold. They can afford to hire as many people as they need and pour dump trucks of money into research and development. Even then they only finished them on-time and as feature rich are they are by the skins of their teeth. (The F/A-18's radar was particularly difficult because not only was space at a premium, but it had to survive the vibration, gasses and muck of the cannon being fired.)

Eagle Dynamics is a rather small, independent, game developer with a handful of developers trying to not just simulate the radar beam, but the signal processing inside the radar set and the avionics that display it.

You know when people say "no one loves a kiss ass..." they don't lie :thumbup:

 

Its hilarious how many folks get triggered when someone asks a relevant question on these forums about promised features....

 

"How dare you not blindly worship at the altar of ED and pledge that all is perfect" :lol:

You know the funniest thing about your childish response is you have no idea what you are talking about, or who you are talking too. :thumbup:

If you had been around here for more than 5 mins you would know I am harder on ED than anyone, and certainly don't 'blindly worship the alter of ED' - the forum mods will back me up on that lol.

Also yes you are right, being an adult it does trigger me when idiots being a smart ass ask stupid, obvious troll questions intended for one reason only.

You know the funniest thing about your childish response is you have no idea what you are talking about, or who you are talking too. :thumbup:

If you had been around here for more than 5 mins you would know I am harder on ED than anyone, and certainly don't 'blindly worship the alter of ED' - the forum mods will back me up on that lol.

 

Also yes you are right, being an adult it does trigger me when idiots being a smart ass ask stupid, obvious troll questions intended for one reason only.

Then you could've let the OP be and kept scrolling, simply really, you know like an adult, but yet you decided to try to throw around some supposed forum "clout" :dunno: lemme go see if I can find someone who cares about said clout...

Then feel free to leave and go back to the other sim and enjoy your fantasy systems, frankenviper development and every 4 years updates

You are missing the point here.

I do enjoy the game, it's fun & realistic and I do not regret buying it.

However, I was expecting more.

I think each model here should be treated as a product and if this is the case than they are all defected and the repair time is taking too long.

If you had a similar, working, product you'd be buying it instead.

BUT, you don't and this is why they allow themselves to sell half baked products and through promises for and A-G radar for 5 years.

This is a GAME and the A-G radar is part of this GAME.

It does not take so long to develop it IF you put your resources to it.

It will never, ever be real nor will you be able to tell the difference from the real radar.

People here are so protective as if someone is hurting their children.

I like how people who obviously have no clue about software development are throwing around opinions on what is "too long" for any given piece of software development. That will sure teach ED!

I like how people who obviously have no clue about software development are throwing around opinions on what is "too long" for any given piece of software development. That will sure teach ED!

That is if you conciser 15+ years in this field (software & hardware)

A-G radar is another feature in this GAME.

All this is a game - none of use is really flying anything here.

I don't know any company who would take that long (5+ years) to add a feature to their software and still survive the market, or release so many incomplete models and still be here unless of course they are the only one...

And again - I want to remind you that I do enjoy this game but this does not blind me to believe that somewhere out there, there are hordes of physicists, mathematicians programmer and engineers, all working tediously to add this A-G radar feature.

That is if you conciser 15+ years in this field (software & hardware) + ample knowledge concerning REAL radar development and operation as "having no clue..."

Yeah, you sure can talk a lot.

I don't know any company who would take that long (5+ years) to add a feature to their software and still survive the market.

Unless of course they are the only one...

Now let's take some time to laugh about that together.

That is if you conciser 15+ years in this field (software & hardware)

 

A-G radar is another feature in this GAME.

All this is a game - none of use is really flying anything here.

 

I don't know any company who would take that long (5+ years) to add a feature to their software and still survive the market, or release so many incomplete models and still be here unless of course they are the only one...

 

And again - I want to remind you that I do enjoy this game but this does not blind me to believe that somewhere out there, there are hordes of physicists, mathematicians programmer and engineers, all working tediously to add this A-G radar feature.

Why are you so triggered by the A/G radar? It's not the silver bullet to solve all problems in the sim. If you fly the Viper I think that's the last thing you should be worried about right now.

It's amazing to me how you guys decide that ED has been working on it non stop for five years just from a very old and almost irrelevant screenshot. Also, keep in mind that they informed us the engineer assigned to it left the company and they had to find a replacement.

So no, they most likely didn't work on it for five years straight, and that's understandable. They also don't have a particularly big team to rely on, so that's something to keep in mind.

At that time (2015), no module in the sim would benefit from it. So you can say they didn't really have to push it forward and go out of their way to make it happen. Now they have two modern airplanes in early access, and it is most likely coming down the road. If I had to take a guess- they want the planes to reach a certain level of maturity and have a fully capable and complete A/A mode for the radars of both planes before they even start integrating the simplest A/G modes.

I see that you are coming from years of flying in other sims. It doesn't look like you understand the way ED handles EA products yet.

Why are you so triggered by the A/G radar? It's not the silver bullet to solve all problems in the sim. If you fly the Viper I think that's the last thing you should be worried about right now.

 

It's amazing to me how you guys decide that ED has been working on it non stop for five years just from a very old and almost irrelevant screenshot. Also, keep in mind that they informed us the engineer assigned to it left the company and they had to find a replacement.

So no, they most likely didn't work on it for five years straight, and that's understandable. They also don't have a particularly big team to rely on, so that's something to keep in mind.

 

At that time (2015), no module in the sim would benefit from it. So you can say they didn't really have to push it forward and go out of their way to make it happen. Now they have two modern airplanes in early access, and it is most likely coming down the road. If I had to take a guess- they want the planes to reach a certain level of maturity and have a fully capable and complete A/A mode for the radars of both planes before they even start integrating the simplest A/G modes.

 

I see that you are coming from years of flying in other sims. It doesn't look like you understand the way ED handles EA products yet.

I hope you are right as this was the initial question - If & When...

The other debate here was revolving around the reason for not implementing this yet.

As some of us were trying to argue it's a matter of resources and priorities and should certainly not take that long when you ARE working on it.

Hopefully if someone is working on it now it will be completed within a reasonable time.

Some here however, believe there are physicists, mathematicians programmer and engineers, all working tediously to add this A-G radar feature. Fearing perhaps, that realizing this is not the case may shutter the illusion of flying.

I've been in sales successfully for 30 years. We have sayings like "sell the sizzle, not the steak", or "bait and switch" or "tell the truth but not the whole truth" (unless you're asked specifically). I mention this to all of you crying "Early Access"!!! It's clear to me that "Early Access" is the gender neutral replacement term for Ponzi Scheme.

In a reply to a reddit post recently the CEO stated clearly that ED cannot survive as a company without the early access program. What he did not mention is the ever mounting backlog of features customers are still waiting to receive for modules purchased 4 years ago. With every EA release that backlog grows.

I'm not dissapointed with the EA Viper release, after two years of flying VR exclusively with an ED product I knew it would be bare bones. I didn't care, I wanted to fly the Viper in VR. What I am dissapointed in is how we the purchasers of these half baked modules are treated. I've been a part of the community of that other Viper sim for 20 years. I would gladly give them a thousand bucks cash or pay a $100 per month subscription fee if I thought for a second it would help them implement VR. Why? Because they are miracle workers. Because they care about the product. Because they are the Benchmark. For ten years everyone said you couldn't export MFD's, gauges etc., then they figured out how to do it. The challenge of implementing VR to a 20 year old software is exponentially harder but if they figure it out, do you really see anyone being loyal to a company that takes your money and then redicules you for being a sucker? No, the only thing that keeps me around DCS is VR. The very second I have another option I'm gone. Why in the world would anyone give their money to a company that treats them with contempt?

 

Well, I'm off to pick up a new drum set!

In case I'm banned, its been fun!

Very well said sir!

Especially the potential similarity between the current EA practice and Ponzi Scheme.

Guess we'll see over time, if more modules entering into EA and less modules exiting EA (reach its Final Release)......

If you really want to do something, you'll find a way; if you don't, you'll find an excuse...

Anyway, for A-G radar, it is clearly out of planned EA feature, so it probably will take quite a while, maybe years before we can see it, if ED ever put the needed resources into its development...

I hope that talking about Radar A / G has not become a taboo.

No more than a month ago I posted a question on the forum.

is the case to "accelerate" the development of the A / G radar?

I'm not talking about the answers I had (a bit aggressive) :), but I am talking about the fact that moving a small percentage of resources in this sense would calm the waters slightly.

People have many expectations on the radar A / G is proof of the frequent "reminders" in this sense there are others that the radar AG does not care about anything with various statements.

I believe that as always the truth is in the middle and it is also true that if we refer to the 70/80 years some aircraft were built on AG radar capabilities.

As said, it is possible or not to agree and it is up to the developers to decide whether "accelerating" or not on the Radar A / G is certain, my feeling, is that a bit of discontent grows.

I hope not to offend anyone with these my statements.

Thanks anyway to the developers for what they gave us and what they will give us in the coming days, months and years.

In fly Dax